00:58.9
They can continue this with other productions.
01:02.1
If not mistaken, since ang konteksto nito ay Gumburza, 1872, ito yung Cavite Mutiny,
01:10.3
it looks like, logically, ang next na dapat titignan natin is 1972, the next hundred years,
01:17.7
and how the Philippines transforms during that time and how we end with martial law.
01:21.7
So probably, ito yung magiging next na chapter dito sa mga series na yan.
01:27.1
Now, I don't wanna...
01:28.9
preempt it, but yun ang narinig natin.
01:32.6
So anyway, congratulations again kay Pepe Jokno for winning the Best Director Award.
01:37.5
Also, congratulations dun sa mga cast ng pelikula, yung screenplay ng pelikula, cinematography.
01:47.0
Napakagaling, napakaganda.
01:48.3
Congratulations sa inyo.
01:49.3
Of course, congratulations also to my colleagues, si Kathy Yang and also Rico Hizon for winning the latest Asian Television Awards.
01:58.9
Congratulations to our friends.
02:00.8
And as I said, I'm more than happy and honored and privileged.
02:05.2
Now, dun sa current affairs category program, we were among the top five finalists from across the region.
02:12.0
So, congratulations to NHK Japan for winning in the current affairs category.
02:16.4
It's a pleasure, it's an honor to be among such great producers and current affairs programs from across Asia.
02:24.3
Maraming salamat. Thank you very much for that and I feel extremely, extremely privileged.
02:28.9
Now, mga kameta, pag-usapan natin itong Gumbursa, itong pelikula na yan because there's so much going on with this movie.
02:37.7
There's many aspects to that, but for the purpose of today, dahil siyempre pwede tayong mag-lecture ng matagal-tagal,
02:45.6
pag-usapan natin ang limang bagay.
02:48.8
I think this is the beauty of this movie.
02:53.2
Para naman sasabihin niya, eto naman si Aidan, ang daming dal-dal-dal-dal bago pumunta sa sasabihin niya.
02:57.6
Well, first of all, ito yung vlog.
02:59.1
Ito yung discussion.
03:00.1
We're building, you know, kind of a comfort level conversational.
03:03.4
But let me signpost what are the things that they have in mind.
03:06.5
First, pag-usapan natin, ano ba talagang first Filipino?
03:09.8
Because usually, ang conception natin na when you say first Filipino, eto Rizal.
03:14.4
I don't know, Moreno, Indio, whatever, you know.
03:17.4
But actually, kitang-kita natin sa pelikulang yan na first of all, hindi po si Rizal ang first Filipino.
03:23.0
Hindi po nagsimula yung ating revolusyon noong panahon nila Rizal.
03:26.2
There were a lot of antecedents.
03:28.3
And in fact, some were.
03:28.9
Some would argue, and I'll discuss this later on, this is the argument of people like Nick Joaquin.
03:34.0
But I think a lot of historians would also agree with that, that actually, Rizal was just a continuation of a much longer tradition that started, actually, with people of European descent, right?
03:46.3
And also, with Filipinos, with very different kind of political persuasion, right, than Rizal, no?
03:53.4
Pag-usapan natin yan.
03:54.5
Pangalawa, pag-usapan din natin itong liberalismo as revolutionary.
03:58.9
And as radical, this is very important.
04:00.5
Because especially dun sa ating alma mater, ating minamahal na unibersidad, parati si Bonifacio lang yung sinasabi na ito yung tunay na hero, itong tunay na bayani, dahil si Bonifacio lang talagang lumaban sa mga Espanyol, etc., etc.
04:17.5
Although, of course, alam natin, you know, militarily speaking, operationally speaking, not very successful si Bonifacio when he launched his, you know, revolt.
04:25.8
It was actually Aguinaldo who was much more successful.
04:28.9
More specific, it was Edilberto Evangelista and other very, very competent, European-trained Filipino engineers and war academy graduates and experts.
04:41.8
Sila yung very successful in pushback the Espanyol.
04:43.9
Pangatlo, pag-usapan natin dito ang, well, I actually hinted at this, how Rizal was a continuation of a tradition and how this tradition goes on and on and on.
04:54.8
So, kung maalala nyo, dun sa interview natin with Pepe Joc, no?
04:58.9
Pinag-usapan natin yung fact na when it comes to the nation-building project, sorry, may inayos lang ako dito, na-off pala itong, sorry, puno mga low-bat lang kasi nag-ayos tayo ng mga ibang bagay.
05:16.0
When it comes to the nation-building project, it's a continuous project.
05:20.8
And if you look at the Philippines, it's a very young nation, right?
05:24.8
Hindi siya katulad ng China, hindi katulad ng Greece or even Russia.
05:28.7
So, for that matter, it's a pretty young nation.
05:31.0
So, it's a continuous project.
05:32.4
So, alam ko marami tayong mga frustrations in terms of bakit kulang tayo sa nasyonalismo, kulang tayo sa ganito, ganyan.
05:37.9
But it's a continuous project, but it's a project that can be improved, if not perfected over time, right?
05:43.9
But you need to make necessary interventions, right?
05:47.8
And you need to do your due and your part of assignment.
05:50.4
So, pag-usapan din natin yan.
05:51.4
Pero pangapat, at dito yung, dito tingin ko talaga unique itong movie na ito.
05:56.2
Because kung tinignan mo itong pelikula na ito, may mga pangapat.
05:58.7
May mga parte dyan, especially towards the end.
06:00.3
So, ito na, spoiler alerts na tayo.
06:01.9
So, yung mga hindi pa nanood or yung mga gusto pang manood kagad, ito yung spoiler alerts, no?
06:08.7
May mga parte dyan sa pelikula, especially in the latter 15-20%, no?
06:13.7
So, the last fifth of the movie, whereby you're gonna see a very different perspective.
06:19.5
In fact, a perspective which is, in my opinion, very counter-result.
06:26.2
And that perspective is that...
06:28.7
The brutality ng Espanya, laban sa ating mga bayani, even laban kay Rizal later on.
06:38.0
Usually, pag tinignan mo yung ating historiography, kung tinignan mo yung mga nobela ni Rizal,
06:43.0
kung tinignan mo yung ating mga diskurso, parating mga sinisisi yung mga friars, right?
06:48.2
Yung mga tao na nasa religious hierarchies and all.
06:50.6
The interesting thing in this movie is that, actually ang pinapakita dito is that the brutality was central to the Spanish imperial project.
06:58.7
Including the non-religious, non-friar, and non-clerical establishment of Espanya.
07:05.7
Particularly, of course, we're talking about the Spanish state, imperial machine, and, of course, the governor and the governors that came after De La Torre.
07:16.9
We'll talk about Governor General De La Torre also shortly because he's supposed to be the liberal kind guy.
07:24.0
But even there, you could see that may limitations in kindness in Espanya.
07:27.1
Even the supposedly more progressive...
07:28.7
...or quote-unquote liberal Spanish governor generals, fundamentally, they were imperialists and they were colonizers, right?
07:38.6
So, dito sa pelikula, makikita natin, ang argumento dito is that the brutality was actually from Rafael Izquierdo y Gutierrez,
07:45.6
the governor general that comes after De La Torre.
07:48.7
But I think the implication here is that a lot of horrible things that happens to the Filipinos,
07:53.5
that was because the imperial Spanish machine was so desperate that they wanted to...
07:58.7
...nip any revolutionary ember or revolutionary effort in the bud.
08:07.0
Because, nga, by 1870s, halos lahat ng mga colonists ng Espanya ay nawala, right?
08:13.4
Nawala yung Mexico, nawala yung Colombia, nawala yung right and left they lost.
08:17.6
Towards then, ang natira na lang Pilipinas at Cuba.
08:21.1
So, very desperate.
08:21.9
And Cuba actually was already in the midst of a revolutionary upheaval by this time.
08:28.7
So, dito makikita mo na usually ang sinisisi natin, ah, lahat niyan ang conspiracy ng mga friars,
08:33.7
mga nandun sa clerical structure and friocracy.
08:39.5
But here you get a much more balanced analysis whereby actually you also have to look at the inherent brutality
08:45.0
also of the Spanish imperial machine represented, of course, in this movie by Rafael Izquierdo,
08:51.4
the governor general that comes especially after De La Torre, right?
08:58.7
And this is what I already hinted at at the very beginning is because please punta kayo dyan,
09:04.7
manood kayo ng peliko lang yan because we want to make sure na they will have enough,
09:11.5
at least mag-break even na sila and so that hopefully they can move towards the next movie and project
09:18.6
and that could be potentially.
09:20.7
So, from 1872, Cavite Mutiny, pag-usapan natin yan, the injustice of it, the brutality of it,
09:28.7
ah, and the heroic and heroism and martyrdom of many Filipinos here,
09:34.3
and then pag-usapan natin in the next chapter, ah, potentially dito is in 1972, right?
09:40.4
Very interestingly, in both 1872 and 1972, major political upheavals happened in Philippine politics.
09:46.1
Now, I don't know, may mga numerology, symbology, mga dyan na pwede siguro magsabi ng kung ano dyan,
09:52.9
but it's just a fascinating coincidence that exactly, ah,
09:58.7
100 years apart, major, major political upheavals happened in the Philippines.
10:04.6
Sorry mga kameta, ayusin lang natin ito, ah.
10:11.2
Now, wala kasing...
10:17.6
Okay. Now, let's go to the first part.
10:21.8
This first part is very, very important, mga kameta.
10:25.0
Okay, this first part is very important because until today,
10:27.5
kitang-kita natin yan, eh.
10:30.4
Kitang-kita natin yan.
10:32.0
Itong, ah, continuously, itong sinasabi na,
10:35.2
na, you know, ah,
10:39.4
ito ang purong Pilipino, ito ang tunay na Pilipino.
10:43.0
We keep on hearing that, right?
10:44.4
We keep on hearing that kind of expression, no?
10:47.2
But, historically speaking, the first Filipinos were not your, ah, you know,
10:52.5
were not your quote-unquote typical Filipino,
10:54.7
or they don't meet what we, today,
10:57.5
consider as, oh, ito talaga Pinoy, ito yung Pinoy beauty,
11:00.0
ito yung Pinoy na humor, ito yung Pinoy na, you know.
11:03.4
Actually, from the very beginning,
11:06.6
the concept of Filipino was a very cosmopolitan concept, right?
11:10.7
And in this sense, it was actually a Creole concept, right?
11:14.1
Now, this is actually not unique to the Philippines.
11:18.7
Way before the Philippines, we already saw, very interestingly,
11:22.6
the emergence of the Mestizo revolutionaries.
11:27.5
But in South America.
11:30.0
So, in particular, you had Simon Bolivar, for instance, right?
11:33.0
Actually, pumunta kayo sa Netflix.
11:35.3
May series yan si Simon Bolivar na you can watch and enjoy.
11:38.5
So, there were a whole host of Spanish revolutionary leaders, right?
11:44.2
Sorry, Spanish-blooded leaders who went against Madre España.
11:49.8
Because they felt that there was inequality,
11:52.8
they felt that there was racism, or not necessarily racism,
11:56.2
but the idea that, oh, if you're not,
11:57.5
if you're not born in Madre España, in Iberia, in Europa,
12:01.6
then you're not an equal of us, right?
12:05.0
And that alienated a lot of Spanish-blooded people
12:09.2
born outside Madre España,
12:11.9
but nevertheless belonging to very elite families,
12:15.5
very elite families, very influential families.
12:19.0
And at the same time, of course, there's also the aspect of,
12:21.1
okay, attach ka culturally, linguistically, politically
12:24.5
to Madre España, to Madrid, and what's happening there.
12:27.5
You're also emotionally attached, right?
12:30.1
You also see our, you know, like one is like patria y grande,
12:34.6
and then one is the, like one is the Madre España,
12:37.8
the greater nation, and then there's the immediate nation, right?
12:40.9
The one when you're born in, right?
12:42.9
So, we see this phenomenon happening very, very commonly
12:46.8
all across Latin America and South America region.
12:49.6
And in the case of Simon Bolivar, of course, he was very successful
12:52.2
and eventually was able to launch a revolutionary upheaval
12:57.5
to dramatic shrinking of Spanish colonies in South America.
13:02.6
And then later on, of course, you also had,
13:04.4
well, actually before that, you also had the case in Mexico.
13:07.6
And if I'm not missing, in Mexico, you also had a priest
13:10.1
and a Criole priest who was behind the revolution
13:13.3
and eventual separation of Mexico.
13:17.6
Now, kung maalala niya ang Mexico, this was called Nova España.
13:22.3
So, this was the, the colony, the major colony of Spain.
13:27.5
Outside Madre España.
13:29.8
And actually, the Philippines,
13:32.5
throughout much of the earlier phases of Spanish colonization,
13:35.8
was ruled not directly via Madrid.
13:38.4
Kasi wala pang Suez Canal doon.
13:40.8
Napakahirap na pumunta yung mga Espanyol dito.
13:43.4
They had to circumnavigate.
13:44.6
I go through the, you know, all the way from, you know,
13:48.5
you know, from South Africa and onwards,
13:50.7
like the Vasco de Gama, the road,
13:55.7
or go all the way through the Magellan.
13:58.8
So, it was much easier for a lot of Espanyol
14:01.2
to actually just cross the Atlantic and go to Latin America.
14:05.4
So, what happened was that for a long time,
14:07.9
actually, the Philippines was ruled via Mexico.
14:10.8
Not necessarily directly through España.
14:14.7
And that also explains why a lot of words we use in the Philippines,
14:18.1
I think the terms like tatay, for instance,
14:20.6
these are, these are not Spanish.
14:22.9
I think they have Aztec roots, if I'm not mistaken.
14:26.8
So, we can go to,
14:27.4
we can go to a lot of, a lot of words,
14:29.6
and a lot of, see, sorry,
14:32.7
naga, yan talagang mga zadi, no?
14:36.7
Naga, multitasking.
14:38.3
Okay, eto na, eto na.
14:40.4
Okay, so the first thing we have to keep in mind is that
14:42.9
you cannot understand the beginning of the Council of Filipino
14:46.1
without understanding what was happening in other Spanish colonies
14:49.2
beginning in the 18, early 19th century.
14:53.2
First, you have the separation of Mexico,
14:55.3
Nova España from Madre España.
14:56.8
This was very important and a big shock to us in the Philippines
14:59.0
because actually Spain was ruling the Philippines via Mexico for a long time.
15:03.1
There was a big logistical reason to that,
15:05.5
Walang Suez Canal, no?
15:07.0
So, you know, the routes to the Philippines were very, very difficult.
15:10.5
You know, you have to either, you know, circumnavigate all the way around Africa
15:14.4
and then go to Asia, Vasco de Gama, or you go the Magellan way, right?
15:19.1
So, a lot of Espanol, you know, much easier for them to go to Latin America or South America, right?
15:25.2
They can, all they have to do is just,
15:26.8
cross lang yung the Atlantic Ocean, no?
15:28.8
Before going to the Philippines, ang laya-laya na yan, no?
15:30.9
So, for a long time, actually, we were ruled via Mexico
15:33.3
because from Mexico to Philippines, it's just the Pacific.
15:35.4
And this is what's very important.
15:38.0
Actually, ang Pilipinas ang arguably the beginning of globalization.
15:43.1
Literally, the whole globe was connected
15:45.0
when the Galleon Trade or Galleon Trade started.
15:49.1
The Galleon Trade was essentially bringing products and resources
15:52.4
from Latin America, Mexico, Philippines, China, and Asia.
15:57.7
That was the first time in the entire human history
16:00.2
na nakonect natin lahat ng continents.
16:02.9
So, parating pinag-usapan ng mga Chino, et cetera,
16:05.4
is that ang globalization started with so-called Silk Road and so on and so forth.
16:09.9
Very Sinocentric views of that, which I have some serious problems with.
16:13.8
As if China was the center of the universe,
16:15.7
neither the West nor China was the center.
16:17.4
There were multiple centers of civilizations during that time.
16:20.4
In fact, the cradle of civilization was in the Middle East and West Asia.
16:22.9
But, ibang usapan na yan.
16:24.2
But actually, the first time all continents were connected,
16:26.8
in a major global trade, yun yung Galleon Trade.
16:29.8
And the Philippines was very much at the center of that.
16:31.7
So, if you look at the beauty of vegan, for instance,
16:34.8
and some of the old Spanish quarters in Northern Philippines, among others,
16:40.9
is because those cities were central to the global trade.
16:45.6
And alam din natin marami merchants from China and other regions
16:49.4
also come to the Philippines because of this Galleon Trade.
16:52.0
So, that's very, very important.
16:53.6
In fact, I think the term sangli,
16:55.8
sangli means trade,
16:56.8
tradesman or something like that, right?
16:58.9
Which was a term used for folks of Chinese background or ancestry.
17:03.5
Now, if you look at it,
17:06.5
in the Philippines, there was a parallel process actually happening.
17:09.6
So, while you had Simon Bolivar in the case of Latin America
17:14.5
and earlier, of course, in the case of Mexico,
17:16.9
in the case of Philippines also,
17:18.7
we had our versions or people similar to him,
17:21.3
but not initially or at least not logistically and militarily as successful as Simon Bolivar.
17:26.8
Now, there are many radical differences between the case in the Philippines
17:29.8
and those countries,
17:31.9
medyo mahabang usapan yan,
17:33.1
but we had people similar to that.
17:35.3
So, for instance,
17:37.4
si El Conde Filipino, no?
17:41.8
So, by 1820s and 1830s already,
17:46.1
you had cases of people who identified as Filipino.
17:50.6
So, this Luis Rodriguez Varela,
17:53.4
Varela, sorry, Varela,
17:56.7
El Conde Filipino,
17:57.8
ito yung isang tao na nag-aaral sa Pransa.
18:02.1
He was, you can consider him as one of the first ilustrados.
18:06.4
So, Filipino in a sense,
18:08.2
from the Philippines,
18:09.2
studied in Europe,
18:10.5
studied in France in particular,
18:12.2
and particular na exposed siya dun sa ideas of French Revolution.
18:18.7
Now, this is very important because
18:20.1
arguably, the introduction of Philippines to liberal ideas
18:24.7
started with the Cadiz Convention,
18:26.7
the Cadiz Constitution, right?
18:28.7
So, kung maalala nyo,
18:30.1
there was a person called Napoleon, right?
18:32.4
And then this person called Napoleon
18:33.8
actually conquered Spain.
18:37.0
And when he conquered Spain,
18:38.6
Napoleonic, revolutionary, republican ideas
18:40.7
were superimposed on Spain.
18:42.5
So, Spain had the Cadiz Constitution of 1812.
18:45.4
Under the Cadiz Constitution of 1812,
18:48.4
liberal ideas were introduced not only to Spain,
18:50.4
but also to colonies.
18:51.5
And more importantly,
18:52.4
there was a degree of introduction of autonomy
18:54.4
and some sort of respect and dignity
18:56.4
to people from the colonies,
18:57.8
including from the Philippines.
18:58.9
So, may mga representatives ang Pilipinas,
19:01.9
doon sa Parlamento,
19:03.6
doon sa Espanya, sa Madrid.
19:05.4
Now, this didn't last long
19:06.9
because eventually, natalo si Napoleon,
19:08.8
na-restore yung monarchy,
19:10.3
na-karoon ng trapuhan.
19:11.7
But actually, the genie was already out of the bottle.
19:14.3
So, by the 1820s and 1830s,
19:16.3
there were already people from the Philippines,
19:18.6
not necessarily Filipino-looking,
19:19.9
but from the Philippines,
19:21.3
purely Spanish-blooded,
19:22.6
a lot of them European-educated,
19:23.8
who wanted already a certain,
19:26.2
a certain degree of Republican-liberal politics
19:29.4
in the Philippines.
19:30.7
So, this is fully half a century
19:33.3
before si Larizal and all come into the picture.
19:37.2
Come into the picture.
19:37.9
So, this is a very important thing to keep in mind.
19:40.8
And then later on,
19:42.9
we can go on and on,
19:44.5
talk about a lot of different other key figures
19:46.3
in the Philippines.
19:47.3
But simultaneously,
19:48.2
and this is what I like about doon sa movie ng Gumbursa,
19:51.5
it also mentions that
19:53.0
while may mga Espanyol na
19:55.3
born in the Philippines,
19:56.2
who consider themselves as Filipino,
19:59.1
already were having tensions
20:00.3
with their fellow Espanyol
20:01.8
who were not treating them as equal
20:03.3
kasi hindi sila pinanganak doon sa Madre España,
20:06.7
there were also mga Pilipino,
20:08.5
quote-unquote, I don't know,
20:09.5
Injo or whatever,
20:10.7
who were also pushing for
20:12.3
greater and greater recognition, right,
20:15.6
of their humanity
20:16.5
and also their fidelity
20:18.7
to the message of the Lord.
20:21.1
And, again, sorry, spoiler alert,
20:23.7
but one of the beauty of the Gumbursa movie
20:26.2
it emphasizes, for instance,
20:27.6
the contribution.
20:28.2
I mean, I was hoping,
20:29.6
Gumbursa also talked about Varela,
20:31.3
but Gumbursa talks about
20:32.6
this very important figure,
20:36.2
I hope that's a correct way
20:38.6
of pronouncing the name.
20:40.8
So, if you look at it,
20:42.5
he was a religious figure, right?
20:45.1
He was a religious figure
20:47.6
Confradia de San Jose, right?
20:50.2
Confraternity of St. Joseph.
20:52.0
So, ito yung na-establish in 1832
20:54.1
in response doon sa mga
20:57.1
racially discriminatory practices
20:58.6
ng the clerical hierarchy
21:00.3
in the Philippines.
21:01.4
Dahil, kung hindi ka Espanyol,
21:03.6
hindi ka galing sa Espanya,
21:05.2
parang hindi ka, you know,
21:06.6
hindi ka na-recognize as, you know,
21:08.1
as a full-fledged,
21:09.1
essentially a full-fledged human being
21:11.5
Not to mention, definitely,
21:13.4
there will be a pushback
21:14.3
if you wanna, you know,
21:15.5
preach the message of the Lord
21:18.0
in circumvention of the authority
21:20.8
of the Spanish-blooded
21:22.0
Urupeo clerical authority
21:24.1
in the Philippines.
21:25.0
So, this is one of the things
21:25.9
I like about the movie.
21:28.6
sorry, spoiler alert,
21:34.0
so, ito yung essential opening scene
21:40.7
talking about the case
21:43.5
Now, which brings me
21:44.5
to the next issue.
21:45.1
Sorry, I don't wanna do
21:45.7
a lot, too many spoiler.
21:48.0
So, kanina, I showed to you guys
21:52.1
also Varela, right?
21:57.7
Indigenous Filipinos
21:58.5
who were also pushing
21:59.3
for greater and greater
22:00.4
equality and recognition
22:01.8
of their humanity
22:02.4
and also their right to preach,
22:05.6
Indigenous religious movements.
22:08.4
But this is where
22:09.1
things are interesting
22:09.9
and we see a lot of
22:10.7
powerlessness between
22:11.6
in the Philippines
22:12.1
at saka yung nangyari dyan
22:13.3
sa mga iba't-ibang bansa
22:18.2
So, interestingly,
22:21.6
dun sa first part
22:25.9
it really zeroes in
22:30.9
ni Father Pedro Palais,
22:34.9
Pedro Palais y Sebastian,
22:37.7
So, kung titignan mo siya,
22:39.3
so, he was a diocesan,
22:42.1
our administrator
22:42.9
of the Archdiocese
22:46.3
Well, a tragedy happened,
22:48.3
so that's why perhaps
22:49.3
we don't know him as much,
22:52.0
if the tragedy didn't happen,
22:54.7
we would have known
22:55.9
about Padre Palais
22:56.9
because he already had
22:57.8
very strong ideas
22:58.9
about growing equality,
23:01.7
Between yung mga pinanganak
23:03.5
at saka yung mga galing
23:04.4
sa Madre España.
23:05.3
Now, kitang-kita sa insura niya,
23:06.9
this person looks
23:08.9
than quote-unquote
23:09.5
Asian or Filipino.
23:12.4
forefront of pushing
23:13.8
for what will eventually
23:15.6
become a Philippine Revolution,
23:17.6
So, napakalaking influence
23:20.7
because Padre Palais
23:24.9
of what he was doing.
23:29.0
And if you look at
23:36.0
you're looking at the Creole,
23:38.2
So, these people are Creoles.
23:39.8
They were the first
23:40.6
Filipinos and they're Creoles,
23:42.2
You can clearly see.
23:43.6
So, the first Filipinos
23:45.6
a lot of them were people
23:46.6
with Spanish blood
23:47.7
or European blood,
23:50.2
who were resenting
23:51.3
itong mistreatment
23:53.2
from their fellow Spaniols
23:55.6
or pure-blooded Spaniols,
23:57.1
who didn't treat them as equals
23:59.1
for that matter, right?
24:00.7
So, in the movie,
24:01.8
sinasabi dito na,
24:07.1
and then yung mga
24:07.9
secular na priests,
24:11.5
secular administrators,
24:13.4
but fundamentally,
24:15.1
ito yung klarong-klaro
24:16.1
na lumalabas sa pelikula
24:17.8
is that this is also about
24:21.0
and racial equality
24:25.6
Spanish-blooded people
24:26.1
born in the Philippines
24:27.1
or partly Spanish people
24:28.5
born in the Philippines
24:30.2
that they're being treated
24:33.1
equal human beings,
24:34.5
That there's clearly
24:35.2
a discriminatory caste system
24:38.7
So, this is very clear.
24:40.8
and this is where
24:41.4
I want to go really
24:42.3
dito sa libro ni Nick Joaquin
24:46.4
I got to appreciate
24:49.6
after reading Nick Joaquin.
24:51.2
I've read about him
24:53.6
but this is where
24:57.4
just be patient with me
24:58.4
and let me read this part.
25:01.6
to call Jose Borges,
25:02.9
the precursor of Rizal
25:04.4
is therefore questionable.
25:06.7
Parang insulto daw yan.
25:08.6
Principally because
25:09.4
it seems to place
25:11.4
or before the mainstream
25:15.0
ito yung sinasabi ni,
25:22.5
the Criolla insurgency
25:24.4
nationalist consciousness
25:25.3
yung maminensyo pa kanina,
25:27.6
El Conde Filipino,
25:29.2
and also the counterparts
25:31.0
and South America
25:32.4
which were very successful,
25:35.8
and the revolution
25:36.5
that was a result
25:37.2
of that consciousness
25:38.0
meaning yung kilala natin,
25:39.7
revolution natin,
25:40.8
that will eventually
25:45.4
If Borges is linked
25:47.1
through the figures
25:48.8
of Gomez and Palais,
25:51.4
through such disciples
26:00.8
explicitly recognized
26:06.5
prime fighting words
26:12.9
this is very important.
26:15.8
actually read the book
26:16.7
A Question of Heroes,
26:19.2
which I completely agree
26:23.9
Jose Borges comes first.
26:27.6
to be a little bit
26:28.2
more historical accurate
26:29.0
is I'll even start
26:30.5
with Alconde Filipino,
26:32.6
and I'll also bring
26:41.1
nagsimula lang ito
26:45.7
questionable claim.
26:53.0
none of these folks,
26:55.3
we all are Filipinos,
26:56.1
wanted total separation
26:59.4
full-blown revolution
27:02.0
and towards the end
27:04.2
But yung ideas nila
27:05.4
were very important
27:06.5
in forming the foundations
27:08.7
a full-blown revolution
27:12.7
This is a very important
27:13.8
thing to keep in mind,
27:16.8
and this is a very
27:18.2
ito makikita natin
27:19.8
sa pelikula nila.
27:23.2
some people said that
27:24.3
they really appreciate
27:27.0
because yung mga actors
27:28.6
medyo kamukha daw.
27:41.4
eto na naman tayo
27:42.2
sa mga artista naman,
27:49.7
I think Piolo Pascual
27:50.5
played the role very well
27:53.4
you know what I'm saying,
27:55.8
would look very much
27:56.6
like your typical
27:57.4
Europe or Spanish,
28:05.3
in many pictures,
28:06.2
the real Jose Borges
28:07.4
would have looked
28:12.1
but there's one picture
28:18.7
dun sa kinungang actor
28:21.2
nanalo ng best actor
28:25.2
Eto yung nang picture
28:26.6
na medyo similar lang.
28:30.4
most of the pictures,
28:43.5
This is where I feel
28:45.0
the casting was perfect
28:49.2
the most of the pictures,
28:51.5
comes as your typical,
28:57.2
Not too different
28:59.8
or other Creoles,
29:04.9
with Padre Palais,
29:07.3
this is very important
29:11.2
was never a racially
29:15.1
it's not about being
29:18.9
it's not being about
29:24.0
from the very beginning.
29:24.8
So, I talked about
29:25.6
Hermann and Pule,
29:28.2
I'm talking about
29:30.3
I'm talking about
29:31.2
who's a Burgosio,
29:33.9
racially diverse.
29:34.5
And that's what makes
29:35.9
very unique and special
29:39.6
any other Asian country
29:40.9
with this kind of
29:42.1
diverse background
29:43.9
and at the same time,
29:48.4
meron tayong embers
29:52.5
almost revolutionary
29:54.0
in the Philippines.
29:54.8
Or at least people
29:55.6
who wanted to push
29:56.3
for those kind of
29:57.8
very important thing
30:01.1
one of the beauties
30:01.8
also in that movie
30:08.9
yung kapatid ni Rizal
30:15.9
the Philippine-American War.
30:18.2
yung mga iba sa atin
30:19.5
ano yung pelikula ni
30:21.8
ano pa kala niya?
30:28.3
what I'm talking about.
30:29.6
I think Buen Camino
30:32.0
there quite prominently.
30:34.6
let's go to the second part
30:35.3
and this is a very
30:48.3
there's a part there
30:56.5
for the spoilers.
31:01.9
But the second thing
31:02.6
I want to talk about
31:03.0
in this movie is,
31:06.5
sa aking universidad,
31:07.9
sa aking alma mater,
31:09.2
there's this whole school
31:10.0
of thought that questions
31:12.3
revolutionary, right?
31:13.3
Now, first of all,
31:14.0
that's completely
31:15.8
because if you really
31:19.0
supposed to read,
31:24.3
as one of the leading sources
31:25.5
including for this movie,
31:27.5
about understanding
31:28.4
Philippine Revolution,
31:30.5
from Schumacher to Rizal
31:32.5
discussed revolution.
31:34.4
And the advice of Schumacher
31:35.9
don't push for a revolution
31:37.4
unless you're sure
31:38.2
that this revolution
31:39.2
has a good chance
31:41.7
mamatay lang mga tao
31:44.1
And that's reckless
31:45.1
and irresponsible.
31:46.7
Yun ang problema natin.
31:47.8
Hindi pwede bara-bara
31:48.7
pagdating sa revolution.
31:49.7
So, you have to look at
31:50.4
certain preconditions.
31:52.1
And one of the preconditions
31:53.9
the imperial power,
31:55.8
Madre España in this case,
31:57.9
imperially overstretched.
32:01.8
involving many conflicts
32:03.3
cannot effectively respond
32:04.5
to a revolutionary people
32:05.5
in one of its colonies,
32:06.9
i.e. the Philippines.
32:08.2
Now, for some reason,
32:09.2
because siguro na sa dabitan
32:10.8
medyo isolated siya
32:12.1
hindi siya kasang
32:23.8
across the Atlantic.
32:24.8
It was a very difficult
32:25.7
military operations.
32:28.2
not being dabitan,
32:29.3
being here in Manila,
32:30.8
and being pretty well-informed,
32:33.2
knowing a little bit
32:34.0
of English among others,
32:36.1
what was happening
32:36.6
and knew how weak
32:38.9
he decided to strike
32:40.4
except, you know,
32:41.1
you also need certain
32:42.6
and organizations
32:43.1
to make that work.
32:46.2
and the Cavite people
32:48.4
will be able to be
32:49.3
more successfully
32:52.4
And then the rest
32:54.2
We can talk about that.
32:59.1
dito sa pelikula na yan
33:01.7
this conversation
33:04.3
Governor de la Torre
33:17.3
therefore progressive,
33:19.2
na makikinig siya
33:24.7
na pwede ma-expel
33:26.0
dahil sa mga kanilang
33:27.3
insurrectionary activities,
33:29.0
things will go fine
33:33.7
But that conversation
33:35.8
That's one of the parts
33:37.4
that I really love
33:39.4
part of the movie,
33:41.3
even the supposed
33:47.1
meaning a liberal,
33:51.9
comes in and says,
33:55.2
Dapat alam mo yung lugar mo.
33:58.0
you're not equal to us.
34:00.1
And then mag-i-insist
34:01.0
dyan si Jose Burgos
34:01.9
na hindi eto radical.
34:03.8
I'm not asking for anything
34:05.3
I'm just asking for
34:06.1
recognition of equality.
34:07.8
Na hindi pwede yung mga
34:08.8
galing lang sa Hispanic
34:10.3
they will just mistreat us
34:11.1
that way and take away
34:12.0
whatever we have worked on.
34:13.3
Hindi pwede ganyan.
34:14.4
And he's again reminded
34:15.9
Governor General,
34:22.8
as insurrectionary.
34:28.2
an act of treason.
34:29.7
So dito makikita natin
34:35.6
as something revolutionary
34:40.7
was to be revolutionary
34:41.9
at this point in time.
34:42.8
So yung mga nagsasabi na
34:43.6
si Rizal ay liberal.
34:44.6
We're not talking about
34:45.4
yung liberal party
34:46.5
at yung mga ek-ek ngayon.
34:47.8
Hindi ko pinag-asapan
34:49.1
I'm talking about,
34:51.6
I'm talking about,
34:52.8
asking for basic things.
34:54.4
Right of representation.
34:55.9
Recognition of your basic dignity
34:57.3
as a human being.
34:58.5
Certain degree of freedom
34:59.6
of expression and assembly.
35:03.2
Basic legal equality.
35:05.1
Recognition of equality
35:09.5
kinukonsider natin
35:10.2
as standard liberal ideals.
35:11.7
But during that time,
35:12.9
these were considered
35:15.3
that de la Torre uses
35:16.2
during his conversations
35:17.7
with Jose Burgos.
35:20.1
You cannot be radical.
35:23.3
And Jose Burgos said,
35:24.7
All we want is equalidad.
35:26.1
That's all we're asking for.
35:27.6
Isn't that too much?
35:30.3
And that comes from de la Torre.
35:32.0
And then things go very bad
35:33.5
because once de la Torre
35:39.8
accurately represents
35:47.3
imperial machine.
35:49.3
The Spanish imperial machine
35:50.4
by the late 19th century
35:52.5
pathetic and brutal.
35:54.3
because it was already
35:55.2
a shadow of its past.
35:57.1
of its former glorious self.
35:59.3
It had lost already
36:02.1
and was just left with Cuba
36:03.5
essentially in the Philippines
36:05.0
and the Spanish East Indies
36:06.4
in this part of the world.
36:09.9
kung titignan mo yung mga
36:13.0
and then when Rizal
36:15.2
when Rizal went to Germany,
36:18.3
and Germany especially,
36:24.4
compared to these
36:30.6
Spain was a poor,
36:51.9
So, Spain at this point
36:55.3
and increasingly brutal
36:56.6
collapsing empire
36:60.0
And it was so scared
37:01.1
because America was rising
37:07.9
and then you have
37:08.9
the rise of Germany
37:09.8
and then the new Britain
37:11.8
the global empires.
37:13.1
So, sobrang pathetic
37:15.5
So, even the best
37:17.0
Espanyols that were sent here
37:18.6
as governor generals,
37:23.0
even some basic levels
37:25.0
dito sa Pilipinas
37:25.8
because they feared na
37:28.3
even minimum reforms,
37:31.4
would mean the end
37:32.2
of the Spanish Empire
37:33.8
Which eventually comes,
37:35.0
which really eventually comes
37:36.0
with the Treaty of Paris,
37:38.9
two decades later.
37:42.3
hindi gusto mangyari
37:43.9
So, they were pushing back
37:44.9
against that very strong.
37:46.1
So, this is a very important
37:47.2
part of the movie
37:48.0
because here it shows
37:51.3
when he advocated
37:52.5
for liberal values
37:55.3
freedom of expression,
37:56.9
things that today
38:04.2
this were radical.
38:06.5
This were revolutionary.
38:08.5
This were treasonous.
38:13.7
na-execute si Rizal.
38:23.0
the third part of this movie.
38:24.5
Ang dami natin mga logistical problems
38:26.5
Tapos may mga ingay pa dito,
38:28.2
Sorry about that, guys.
38:32.7
Naging lecture tuloy yan
38:34.1
kaysa magandang tuloy-tuloy
38:37.0
Pero, I'll try to make
38:38.4
some vlogs about this
38:40.1
na medyo maayos-ayos
38:41.2
para ma-appreciate
38:43.3
I'll try to make this better.
38:45.7
Let's talk about the third part.
38:46.9
Now, dun sa pelikulang
38:55.9
And dun sa pelikula,
38:57.5
makikita mo na si
38:58.3
Pashano will make sure
39:06.6
and also in a way
39:10.3
na itong maliit na bata
39:11.8
na makikita mo sa movie
39:17.1
Magiging ganyan tao.
39:19.0
let me tell you one thing
39:23.4
really quite something.
39:26.1
Some would consider him
39:27.9
enlightenment thinker.
39:30.1
you can essentially go from
39:34.2
Incredible person.
39:35.5
As an incredible,
39:36.2
incredible person.
39:38.9
the genius of his work
39:40.2
is almost unparalleled.
39:54.5
and Southeast Asia.
39:57.2
epitome of Asian hero
40:02.0
of the 20th century
40:11.0
national students
40:14.3
as the embodiment
40:16.3
revolutionary hero.
40:21.8
ang pakaka-revolutionary
40:26.7
all around the world
40:30.4
after Rizal's execution,
40:32.1
he was being held
40:36.2
I have friends in Malaysia,
40:37.7
I have friends in Indonesia
40:38.5
who are called Rizal,
40:41.3
Whose name is Rizal
40:42.4
because of Oza Rizal.
40:43.6
Because they see him
40:44.3
as a Malayan leader,
40:45.4
as a pan-Malayan,
40:46.7
pan-Asian leader.
40:56.2
Rizal was not perfect
40:57.7
because he was exiled
41:01.5
Siguro hindi na na-appreciate
41:02.9
yung revolutionary moment,
41:09.8
from everything else
41:13.4
And not only for our country
41:14.7
but for the Asian people.
41:37.6
andito pala kayo.
41:44.0
sana kumayos natin
41:45.8
ng infrastructure.
41:47.2
Kailangan ko na talaga
41:47.9
ng production team,
41:51.2
ng production team.
42:04.4
you never know, eh.
42:05.8
Baka may nakaupo lang
42:06.8
na malit na bata dyan,
42:08.1
hindi mo alang isang,
42:10.3
balang isang araw
42:11.2
ay magiging kung sino yan.
42:12.7
In the best way possible,
42:13.9
of course, right?
42:14.9
And yun yung makikita natin
42:17.7
sa pelikulang ito.
42:19.6
nung dinala ni Pasiano,
42:21.1
yung kanyang malit na kapatid,
42:27.2
And this is a very,
42:28.7
very dramatic scene.
42:31.8
I really have to control myself.
42:33.5
I really have to control myself
42:37.6
and this is where I think,
42:40.8
Enchong Diba yung pangalan niya.
42:43.3
Enchong Diba is such a good actor.
42:46.7
he is really a good actor.
42:48.9
I'm not questioning yung iba
42:49.8
na nananalo na award,
42:52.7
the way Enchong Diba embodied,
42:55.0
yung character niya,
42:59.4
happy-go-lucky guy
43:00.7
who was just having a good time
43:02.2
and being silly and funny
43:04.0
and next thing you know,
43:13.6
he played it very,
43:15.2
sorry for spoilers,
43:17.9
grabe talaga yung part ni Enchong Diba.
43:20.9
really amazed by,
43:22.2
by his acting skills
43:23.3
because he really embodied the,
43:27.5
and injustice of the situation.
43:30.9
but the part where
43:35.1
really emotional is,
43:44.2
This brilliant guy,
43:45.9
the best of his generation,
43:47.4
the greatest legal mind of his generation,
43:54.3
he's kind of like
43:55.4
navigating between
43:58.0
full acceptance of the situation
44:00.1
and at the same time
44:07.6
pag tinignan yun sa,
44:11.1
pag tinignan mo yun sa pelikula,
44:13.5
this is a very emotional,
44:14.8
pag tinignan mo yun sa pelikula,
44:22.7
I want to say something
44:26.4
but that will be the next part nalang,
44:27.6
pag-usapan natin under item number four nalang.
44:31.3
the defiance of the moment,
44:33.4
at the same time,
44:36.4
to really keep calm and composed
44:38.2
but not being able to,
44:39.3
so his humanity was there.
44:41.0
At the same time,
44:41.5
there was an element of
44:42.5
Christian martyrdom there.
44:44.7
there was an element of Christian martyrdom there.
44:46.8
And the cinematography,
44:48.5
the way Pepe Jokner rendered it,
44:50.3
Pepe Jokner in our interview said himself
44:51.8
that he's not a devout,
44:53.1
Christian or Catholic or whatever,
44:55.6
but the way he rendered there
44:59.3
really drove home
45:00.9
yung Christian spiritual aspect
45:03.5
ng pelikulang yan.
45:07.7
let me read to you guys
45:11.1
so this is page 64
45:12.9
sa Question of Heroes,
45:20.1
Because as great as
45:22.9
rendition of that scene was,
45:25.2
it could have been rendered
45:26.6
even more dramatically.
45:29.1
So let me read from Nick Joaquin
45:30.6
para you see the drama,
45:35.0
a question of heroes eh.
45:37.7
Because there was still a defiance
45:39.1
of the moment right there.
46:08.6
it's page 20 pala.
46:10.2
I mistakenly went there.
46:14.0
Medyo emotional itong part na ito.
46:16.0
On the way to the scaffold,
46:17.5
Saldo was smiled with confidence.
46:20.6
erect with dignity.
46:21.8
So makikita natin yan
46:24.4
yung pinakamatanda sa kanila,
46:30.3
he accepted his faith
46:36.1
of his duty as a Christian.
46:40.7
Padre Gomez was erect with dignity
46:45.0
and the unstable Zamora
46:46.7
moved in the separate peace
46:51.4
Enchong D actually
46:52.2
portrayed this part
46:54.7
Gomez essentially
46:55.4
accepting his situation.
46:59.6
he just couldn't understand
47:00.6
what was happening
47:01.3
so yung acting ni Enchong D
47:04.0
But this is the part,
47:05.6
was still defying the moment.
47:08.9
Zamora protested that
47:10.0
when he went to Cavita
47:11.3
it was to play cards.
47:13.2
That on January 13
47:14.3
he was at the house
47:15.0
of the Gobernador
47:15.9
Silio of Zampalo.
47:17.9
at the convent of Chiapo
47:19.8
and on January 21
47:22.1
When his house was searched,
47:23.3
nothing indiscriminating
47:25.8
Ito yung ginamit niya
47:29.4
come without fail.
47:39.4
At yun ang ginamit nila
47:40.5
as a basis to say
47:44.3
it was ridiculous situation.
47:46.1
And that brought Zamora
47:59.9
of the cathedral,
48:00.8
he was Borgo's colleague.
48:03.5
by association situation.
48:06.2
by association situation.
48:15.0
Zamora climbed up
48:18.2
what was happening,
48:19.6
know when he was killed.
48:24.1
he was out of this world.
48:26.0
may kita nyo yun talaga
48:36.8
He just couldn't be reached.
48:42.6
of the moment there.
48:44.3
Kaya nga sabi ko,
48:45.0
I was really impressed
48:46.5
with N. Jong Din's acting
48:48.0
yung transition niya
48:49.5
from this playful,
48:54.9
got it very right.
48:59.9
unacceptable situation
49:00.9
because of the insanity
49:01.6
of the situation.
49:02.5
How he just lost it
49:04.0
during the court,
49:04.7
during the accusations
49:09.6
is such a good actor.
49:12.5
everyone was so good
49:14.5
the way N. Jong Din
49:18.3
and really brings home
49:19.9
and the unfairness
49:20.7
of the situation.
49:32.8
itong isa sa kapila.
49:43.3
gather my emotions.
50:11.0
Gomez had preceded him.
50:14.4
So, mauna si Gomez
50:15.6
kaysa kay Zamora.
50:17.3
that's what I saw
50:19.5
Parang nauna yata
50:26.8
I was actually also
50:28.1
kung na-follow din
50:33.4
at yung sequencing
50:37.7
the folks themselves.
50:41.0
Gomez had preceded him.
50:43.3
and Zamora couldn't
50:44.4
really accept the situation.
50:46.3
In the case of Gomez,
50:47.1
he had preceded him
50:48.2
who before all this
50:49.0
had already known
50:50.1
the fullness of disillusion
50:51.3
needed no traplane
50:57.0
that could happen in life
50:58.1
and it's this resignation
50:59.2
that makes his last words
51:09.4
that I die in this place,
51:16.0
yung sa huling gabi nila.
51:20.4
before yung execution nila
51:23.6
a full elucidation
51:32.7
that we don't know.
51:36.0
that this would spark
51:41.1
or that this would
51:45.9
Rizal and his generation
51:53.6
But he had a sense
51:54.7
that you have to trust
51:58.6
But this is where
51:59.5
it's really emotional.
52:00.6
Kasi pagdating ka mo
52:03.5
it's just his humanity.
52:11.5
I'm not surprised
52:12.0
na Nalo bilang best actor.
52:19.7
if I'm not mistaken
52:21.8
I can directly relate to that.
52:26.2
against injustice.
52:31.6
So was Jesus Christ
52:37.2
Makikita nyo sa movie
52:38.0
na yung isang pare
52:39.9
even Jesus Christ
52:48.9
that he's gonna be
52:51.7
Something that he did not
52:55.3
He did not anticipate.
52:56.7
one of the tragic things
52:57.6
is that you can see
52:58.2
until the last moment,
52:59.3
parang umaasa pa rati
53:04.0
kung naisip niya,
53:04.9
part Espanyol din naman ako,
53:06.4
part of the clerical
53:13.2
this is too crazy, right?
53:16.5
suddenly there's an acceptance
53:25.6
they became the preachers
53:29.2
In addition to being,
53:30.4
becoming professors
53:34.5
in one way or another,
53:35.8
this is about being inspired
53:40.2
when the executioner
53:44.6
I forgot this part, eh.
53:46.2
Bago may execute,
53:50.5
yung mag-execute sa kanya
53:51.8
ay nagpa-blessing sa kanya,
53:57.4
this is next level, right?
53:59.1
You can see how ridiculous
54:00.3
the situation is.
54:02.3
who are in charge of,
54:06.2
this horrible act,
54:07.6
they themselves know this is,
54:08.9
this is not only wrong,
54:10.7
this is an abomination.
54:14.1
may kita nyo rin sa,
54:14.9
with the rosary and all,
54:19.5
ibe-bless ni Jose Borgos,
54:21.5
yung mag-execute sa kanya.
54:28.0
this is where you can see
54:29.2
the passion of the Christ,
54:33.2
this is the sin of martyrdom.
54:35.5
Pebe Jocno did a very,
54:41.6
communicating to us,
54:43.1
yung emotion of the moment here.
54:45.1
And at that moment,
54:47.9
the great multitude
54:50.3
fell to their knees
54:51.7
and in chorus intoned
54:53.2
the litany for the dying,
54:55.0
which takes longer than a minute
54:56.3
and a garrote needs to break
55:02.8
as Nick Joaquin puts it,
55:04.0
the tragedy of Borgos
55:05.0
is the modern one
55:05.8
of rising expectations.
55:08.3
in clerical militancy,
55:10.1
Gomez and Palais,
55:11.2
could remember a time
55:12.2
in the early 1800s
55:15.9
seemed inevitable.
55:17.6
Being in the spirit
55:19.5
the liberal revolution
55:21.4
ito yung sinasabi ko na
55:22.3
actually during the Napoleonic era
55:24.2
and after the French Revolution,
55:26.4
many thought that
55:27.2
it's just a matter of time
55:28.3
before Spain opens up more
55:29.8
and allows for native-born,
55:33.2
or even not Spanish-blooded people
55:34.7
to gain more autonomy,
55:41.0
Palais all but reached
55:42.3
the throne of the sea
55:44.7
But the way it was done,
55:44.9
the way of advancement
55:45.7
that had been widening,
55:47.5
Borgo's was to see blocked.
55:49.5
The frustration was so violent
55:51.2
because of the impetus
55:52.8
and the speed of his advance.
55:54.6
He was a really brilliant guy.
55:56.0
He was the best of his patch.
55:57.6
Palais considered him
55:59.1
already surpassing him.
56:00.5
That was how good it was.
56:01.9
It was a hand-long career
56:04.1
He was still to be ordained
56:06.2
for a parish and won it,
56:07.7
though he could not
56:08.4
take the possession
56:09.3
because he was still
56:11.3
When he did become a priest,
56:12.8
his first parish was
56:14.1
right off the coast.
56:14.7
He was the first parish
56:14.9
in the cathedral of Manila.
56:16.2
So right off the bat,
56:17.4
he made it to the very top.
56:19.7
a doctor of theology,
56:22.1
a doctor of canon law,
56:23.6
and he became a power figure
56:25.0
as a synodal examiner
56:27.4
of the primacy of the country.
56:29.8
So this was a case of a
56:33.4
very, very intelligent,
56:35.4
very, very ambitious,
56:37.1
and to a certain degree,
56:38.4
still a reasonably
56:42.9
But what they didn't realize
56:44.5
by 1870s and 80s,
56:46.8
Spain was a dying empire.
56:49.5
And what was happening there
56:50.6
was the violent lashes
56:52.3
of a dying beast.
56:55.6
the three martyrs
56:58.0
And that sets the tone
57:00.1
to come into the picture.
57:08.3
the beginning of something
57:11.0
And the beauty of the movie
57:14.3
just the next chapter.
57:16.2
end of the story,
57:17.6
so Rizal is neither
57:18.5
the beginning of the story
57:19.5
nor the end of the story.
57:21.2
This is the beauty
57:21.8
that you see with this movie
57:22.8
which I think perfectly captures
57:24.2
what the nation-building project is.
57:26.5
And martyrdom is not just
57:27.7
this martyrdom happens
57:29.2
and it's the end of the story.
57:31.0
It's about being inspired
57:34.7
that came before that.
57:35.6
It's being inspired
57:36.5
by the story of Jesus Christ
57:37.7
and continuing this process
57:38.9
on and on and on.
57:41.5
it's ironic that the
57:42.8
person who they put in charge,
57:45.7
he's not religious
57:47.6
but there's just so much
57:50.8
and spiritual depth
57:54.9
really, really breathtaking.
57:57.0
And to be honest,
57:58.0
it took me more than
57:58.8
probably two days
58:01.3
tong pelikula na ito
58:03.2
ati-contextualize natin
58:04.8
the discussion natin today.
58:06.6
Now let's go to the fourth part
58:07.9
because the fourth part
58:08.7
is an interesting part
58:10.0
which I'll explain to you guys
58:15.7
the first time I heard about
58:18.6
at nasa Madrid ako
58:19.3
kasama natin yung kaibigan natin
58:25.0
Ateneo or something like that
58:33.2
with religious affiliations
58:35.3
were working on a movie
58:38.8
that made perfect sense
58:39.8
because after all,
58:41.3
the Gumbursas are
58:51.2
for a religiously
58:52.2
affiliated institution
59:00.5
But where I realized
59:01.9
why this was important
59:04.7
I'm not gonna say
59:05.2
I'm gonna disagree with them
59:06.9
I have my views on this,
59:09.4
kailangan natin isulat yan.
59:10.5
Kailangan natin isulat
59:11.6
I have my views on this
59:13.8
I at least appreciated
59:14.7
I don't know if I can use
59:18.0
the word learning
59:18.6
but at least being exposed
59:20.5
perspective on this.
59:22.3
katulad ang sinabi ko,
59:23.1
kung nagbasa ka ng
59:27.5
yung unang nobela
59:37.0
maririalize mo talaga
59:40.1
ito maging realization mo
59:43.8
baka may kasalanan
59:46.1
hindi lang kay Rizal
59:47.0
pero doon sa ating bansa
59:48.3
and all of the medieval
59:54.6
yun ang makikita mo
59:55.8
unang libro ni Rizal.
59:58.7
El Fulibisterismo
60:02.4
if you watch this movie
60:03.9
you'll realize that
60:04.8
it was a much more
60:05.6
complicated picture,
60:07.4
That the rottenness
60:08.7
doon sa political system
60:10.2
natin was much deeper
60:12.5
goes all the way back
60:13.6
to Madre España.
60:15.3
It's not in the Philippines alone.
60:17.0
That a lot of problems
60:18.1
and contradictions
60:20.9
we're seeing in the Philippines
60:26.9
sa España mismo.
60:29.2
of course happening
60:31.0
the bigger imperial conflict
60:32.3
that was happening
60:33.3
with the rise of Germany,
60:35.1
with the rise of Russia,
60:38.6
also Japan later on.
60:40.1
ibang usapan na yan, no?
60:43.6
I found interesting
60:44.6
and some would say
60:45.9
some would say questionable
60:48.2
I'm keeping an open mind here
60:49.5
and I'm willing to listen
60:50.2
naman to different points of view
60:53.4
that's the only way
60:54.3
you're gonna learn.
60:57.6
One of the things
61:02.7
Professor Jeffrey Sachs
61:05.2
and Rashid Khalidi
61:06.6
Columbia University
61:08.5
and there was a part
61:09.5
where Jeffrey Sachs
61:10.7
said something like,
61:11.9
when you get older
61:15.4
unlearning history
61:17.1
than learning history.
61:18.4
realizing that many things
61:20.1
were historical facts
61:24.7
that happened in the past
61:26.4
that's actually not the case.
61:28.6
that's why I'm always open
61:30.1
hindi siya revisionist
61:34.0
in a way that we understand it.
61:36.0
To counter narrative
61:37.5
or rather alternative narratives
61:39.4
but also basically
61:40.6
based on evidence and facts.
61:42.8
going back to this,
61:45.6
Naging lecture na ito,
61:50.8
because this is my way
61:51.7
of paying respect to Pepe.
61:53.3
I think Pepe Jokno
61:54.2
has done something fantastic here.
61:56.3
So, doing a one-hour
61:57.7
almost lecture on this
61:58.8
is my way of paying respect,
62:04.3
And it's my way of also
62:05.4
paying respect to our heroes,
62:07.6
And I really appreciate it
62:09.5
matagal kong gusto
62:16.0
Cordillera ni Locano.
62:17.6
Not only because of that.
62:21.1
I'm proud of that too,
62:23.1
and the fact that,
62:25.2
these people are all my age
62:26.4
more or less, right?
62:28.0
Nakaka-relate tayo
62:28.8
in a certain way.
62:29.5
But it's also because
62:30.6
I feel sobrang limitado
62:33.4
kung ang debate lang
62:34.3
Bonifacio versus Rizal.
62:39.2
para sa football,
62:39.8
ang pinakamagaling ngayon
62:44.8
And then pagdebatein natin
62:45.8
ang pinakamagaling na bansa,
62:47.9
Portugal or Spain,
62:49.5
It doesn't make sense, right?
62:51.2
magaling ang Portugal and Spain,
62:52.7
but may mga nauna pa
62:54.5
You know what I'm saying, right?
62:56.4
let's just debate Messi
62:58.2
and then forgetting about Pele,
63:00.7
Franz Beckenbauer,
63:02.6
Ronaldo of Brazil,
63:04.5
you know what I'm saying?
63:05.7
I have a problem with that,
63:08.2
Christian Ronaldo
63:09.0
versus Messi debate,
63:10.2
but I'll not forget about
63:11.2
the earlier debates, right?
63:12.6
I'm gonna talk about Pele,
63:13.9
I wanna talk about,
63:15.5
other legends in football.
63:17.5
So parang ganun din yan.
63:18.3
Hindi mo pwede sabihin
63:19.5
and Kobe Bryant lang
63:20.6
and then kalimutan mo
63:21.7
si Michael Jordan, right?
63:23.0
So in a way, for me,
63:23.7
parang Michael Jordan
63:24.4
yung itong pinagsapan natin.
63:25.5
Naunan pa siya, eh.
63:26.8
Siya yung first goat.
63:29.7
Siya yung first goat.
63:31.5
Yes, yes, sorry about that.
63:32.7
Okay, yes, yes, yes.
63:33.8
Hindi, upload ko naman
63:34.8
itong final version.
63:35.8
Wag kayong ganun.
63:41.2
let's go to this poll.
63:44.1
one of the arguments
63:44.9
you hear dito sa,
63:47.2
oh, lagay ka na natin dito
63:48.2
parang hindi mag-drama.
63:49.2
One of the arguments
63:49.9
you hear dito sa,
63:53.2
sa peliko lang yan,
63:55.2
it comes only towards the end.
63:59.8
sorry for spoiler alert.
64:00.8
One of the questions
64:01.2
that comes up here
64:08.5
So, katulad na sinabi ko,
64:11.9
governor generals
64:13.5
dito sa Kavita Mutiny
64:15.1
because of course
64:15.6
this is based on history.
64:21.1
the limits of so-called liberals
64:24.7
is perfectly sensible
64:26.0
given what we're also seeing nowadays.
64:28.3
Na wag kayong makasa
64:30.3
So, agree ako dyan.
64:32.7
the more brutal ones
64:33.9
are always around the corner.
64:36.7
Rafael Izquierdo Igutierrez.
64:39.1
So, if you look at Izquierdo,
64:43.5
what the movie is showing
64:55.1
it fundamentally came
64:56.6
from the Spanish Imperial Machine
64:58.1
via Rafael Izquierdo.
65:01.6
This was not necessarily
65:03.9
of the other friars
65:05.0
who were competing with the
65:08.6
Jose Borges essentially.
65:09.8
First, Pedro Palais
65:10.7
and then Jose Borges.
65:12.7
Yun ang kakumpitensya
65:13.5
niya kasi napakatalino
65:14.7
ito si Jose Borges
65:15.5
at si Pedro Palais
65:16.5
na they could rebut them,
65:18.1
they could petition to Madrid.
65:20.0
So, you could see that.
65:21.5
parating nagpa-petition sa Madrid,
65:23.1
parating ginagamit nila
65:24.2
yung mga argumento nila
65:25.0
to push back against
65:27.2
coming from the other side.
65:28.5
But, what you see in this movie
65:29.5
is this interesting contention
65:31.2
whereby they say,
65:40.9
intrigue of friars
65:43.4
normal argument you see
65:44.6
from a Rizalian point of view.
65:46.9
Let's just put it that way.
65:48.2
But, more a reflection
65:50.9
of the Spanish Imperial Machine
65:54.2
Rafael Izquierdo.
65:56.0
So, if you look at
65:56.5
Rafael Izquierdo,
65:58.2
even the actor that they got,
66:01.8
mukhang brutos talaga.
66:03.2
Sobrang mukhang brutal.
66:04.5
And, there are many scenes
66:05.6
there na ikita mo na parang
66:06.6
this guy was really
66:07.6
coming to the Philippines
66:15.5
being treated anything
66:16.3
more than just subjects
66:22.7
even for half Spanish
66:23.9
or fully Spanish-borns
66:25.3
in the Philippines
66:27.7
It's not gonna happen.
66:29.3
So, in the case of
66:31.6
it was like a rude awakening
66:35.1
in Imperial Spanish Machine
66:37.0
in the late 19th century.
66:38.5
In the case of Izquierdo,
66:39.3
it was just brutal
66:45.4
yung ganyan style.
66:47.2
So, very dictatorial
66:50.6
Which you see there.
66:51.4
And, this was a secular
66:52.5
Imperial Machinery issue.
66:56.4
conspiracy issue.
66:59.1
historians may disagree
67:00.0
with that and say
67:02.6
maybe it's a combination
67:05.5
na by just looking
67:07.0
at the friar aspect
67:08.0
which is the Rizal perspective,
67:09.6
you're also missing
67:11.0
of the Spanish machine
67:13.6
19th century aspect.
67:20.6
government journals
67:21.3
that will come later on.
67:22.6
And, I can also talk about
67:24.7
grabe yung mga ginamit
67:26.9
concentration camp strategy
67:28.4
ang ginamit ng Spain
67:31.5
And, a lot of these
67:32.6
brutal strategies
67:33.4
will later on be used
67:34.2
even in a worse way
67:40.7
na I found interesting.
67:43.1
I completely agree with it
67:44.3
but I see the point.
67:47.5
The other thing is also
67:48.6
I didn't know that.
67:50.7
And, I didn't know that.
67:51.3
And, I don't think
67:52.0
ilalagay yan sa pelikula
67:53.4
kung walang basihan ito.
67:55.2
Walang basihan ito.
67:55.9
But, I didn't know this.
68:00.5
The fact na pinayagan
68:02.3
yung tatlong pare
68:10.7
priesthood garment
68:14.5
that had to be negotiated.
68:21.7
like the Philippines
68:24.9
and you wanna go again
68:26.7
any revolutionary
68:27.4
ideals in the boat
68:29.4
naghanap ka ng problema
68:30.5
kung ang gagawin mo
68:33.2
ka ng tatlong pare.
68:34.9
And, in this case
68:35.9
at least yung isa
68:37.0
sa mga pare na yan
68:38.8
mukhang Espanyol.
68:41.2
what are you trying to
68:46.2
is that gonna make
68:46.8
the situation better?
68:48.4
there's a part there
68:49.3
in the movie again
68:50.2
sorry, spoiler alert
68:51.5
where Izquierdo says
68:53.4
okay, let's be brutally realistic
68:55.1
about the situation.
68:58.2
There are only like
69:09.5
that's why you have to be
69:12.4
completely brutal sila
69:13.5
para makakaroon ng
69:14.5
essentially deterrence argument.
69:16.1
Deterrence argument, right?
69:18.2
But, nevertheless
69:18.7
interesting is a movie
69:20.3
the representative
69:27.4
and they will die as priests.
69:30.0
suddenly the clergy
69:31.2
was able to overcome
69:33.1
the power of the state.
69:36.6
nangikita mo sa movie na
69:37.6
the clerical establishment
69:39.3
in the Philippines
69:39.8
was very diverse.
69:41.1
It was a spectrum.
69:42.8
There were people
69:43.7
in the clerical establishment
69:44.6
who were actually
69:45.2
very, very receptive
69:46.6
dun sa calls for equality
69:48.5
nila Pedro Palayas
69:51.1
and then there were other friars
69:52.0
coming from Spain
69:52.6
who had different ideas about it.
69:53.9
So, actually it provides
69:55.0
a much more nuanced understanding
69:56.5
of the clerical establishment
69:58.6
in the Philippines.
69:59.3
The clerical establishment
70:00.2
was not monolithic.
70:01.3
I appreciate that.
70:02.5
The rest, I don't know.
70:03.4
Siguro kausapin natin
70:04.2
yung maibang historiador
70:06.2
Siguro si Xiao Chua
70:07.4
na-meet natin si Xiao Chua
70:15.9
Let's go to the last part of this.
70:23.0
timing is very interesting.
70:25.8
good friends like
70:28.4
and mga other historians
70:29.2
have also touched on this issue.
70:31.1
And that's the issue of
70:32.8
the timing is very interesting.
70:39.8
And this martyrdom happens.
70:41.4
And this martyrdom happens.
70:44.3
almost exactly 100 years later,
70:45.8
you have the declaration
70:48.1
Now, you don't know
70:48.5
kung tinayiming yan.
70:50.1
if there's a numerology,
70:51.1
symbology behind it.
70:52.5
But it's just interesting
70:54.3
to try to understand
70:56.5
that 100 years of upheaval
70:58.7
in the Philippines
70:59.3
from 1872 to 1972.
71:05.6
or anyone who wants
71:06.4
to write about the Philippines,
71:07.4
it will be a very interesting
71:08.6
episode to analyze.
71:11.8
What went really, really wrong?
71:14.4
What are the things
71:15.7
What are the hopeful things?
71:17.7
And what are the lessons
71:19.6
the 21st century?
71:23.3
From the next 100 years.
71:24.7
So, from 1972 to 2072,
71:28.0
ano naman na mangyari
71:29.5
Ano mga gagawin natin?
71:31.5
ang inisip ko na mga
71:32.1
interesting na stuff.
71:35.3
this movie raises questions.
71:38.8
a sequel to this movie.
71:40.5
will focus on 1972.
71:42.6
But I'd rather leave that
71:44.4
historian friends.
71:45.2
Hopefully in our next meta
71:51.3
and with our other
71:52.2
historian friends.
71:52.9
Maybe we can talk about this more.
71:54.8
there were a lot of things
72:04.1
Irreally familiar.
72:06.2
of Guardia Civil.
72:09.1
You know exactly.
72:09.9
what I'm talking about, right?
72:15.6
and sending a message,
72:24.9
of our trapos, right?
72:27.5
Elitism is a big issue
72:28.5
that you see in that movie.
72:31.0
de facto caste system
72:32.0
that the Philippines
72:33.3
had back in the day,
72:36.4
there are many elements
72:37.4
that you see there
72:39.8
that they don't seem
72:41.3
to be from a century ago.
72:42.4
They seem to be like
72:46.3
relatable in our era, right?
72:48.9
that's why I felt
72:49.7
this movie is not just
72:50.5
a historical movie.
72:52.1
that speaks to us
72:56.3
but most importantly
73:00.2
I really recommend you guys
73:01.3
to watch this movie.
73:02.2
It's a fantastic movie
73:03.1
while still there
73:03.8
in the movie houses
73:05.1
because it might take
73:06.7
before it goes to Netflix.
73:09.7
that you put there
73:12.1
not only to this movie
73:13.0
but yes to other projects
73:15.0
and fantastic people
73:15.9
who have been working
73:16.8
on these kinds of movies
73:17.8
and it was also saying
73:19.0
yes to all of historians
73:20.1
and people who care
73:20.9
about the Philippines
73:21.5
and people who want
73:22.2
to have these kind of discussions
73:23.0
that we had today.
73:25.1
thank you very much
73:25.7
sa ating mga kameta.
73:26.7
Maraming salamat.
73:27.5
Pasensya na kung medyo
73:28.5
may mga logistical issues
73:30.2
and problems tayo.
73:32.2
I just thought to
73:34.0
a little bit earlier
73:35.3
Sabi ko baka medyo malungkot
73:36.7
pag sa gabi tayo magpagsa.
73:38.3
Kasi medyo heavy yan.
73:39.7
So I tried to do it
73:40.9
before the sunset.
73:42.4
The next thing I know,
73:43.7
hindi na-charge and all.
73:45.3
I'm glad that we got
73:46.4
to get some of the things going.
73:48.0
I'm glad that we started
73:49.6
some sort of a book talk-ish
73:52.7
So maybe I'll do more
73:54.2
There are also lines
73:54.8
from El Filibusterismo.
73:58.1
in El Filibusterismo
74:03.0
and medyo creepy.
74:06.0
Pag check ko kanina,
74:07.0
ito yung page na may extra.
74:09.0
Parang may extra.
74:09.7
May extra yung page na yan.
74:10.6
And I don't know why.
74:12.7
isang page lang may extra
74:13.7
and yun pa yung exactly page
74:15.1
na I always quote.
74:18.1
Because I have different copies.
74:19.1
I also do Kindle, etc.
74:20.8
But maybe we can have that
74:21.9
in different context
74:23.8
and different conversation.
74:24.7
But I hope we can have
74:26.8
So if you guys show support
74:28.6
we're doing like this,
74:29.5
the more maaangganyo kami
74:30.5
to do something like this.
74:32.2
doon na lang kami sa classroom,
74:33.7
sa academic setup.
74:35.0
But ang gusto kong simulan
74:39.7
So that you don't have
74:41.7
or in the university context
74:43.2
to get these kinds
74:45.4
Thank you very much.
74:46.8
And talk to you soon.
