R&R: P.I. CHA-CHA, TAIWAN, CHINA, BBM
00:20.0
paborit. Ito, si Secretary Ronald
00:22.1
Llamas. Thank you very much,
00:24.0
Ronaldo, for joining us.
00:26.6
Yeah, good evening,
00:28.5
Talagang evening na evening.
00:30.7
Ayan, nakabalik ka na sa bansa, kasi
00:32.4
is the last time when we all
00:34.7
talking, you were in Paris.
00:37.0
How was it, Paris?
00:42.3
Pati kong mainit dito.
00:44.8
Ay, talaga yung Pilipino,
00:47.1
diba? Naka-abroad lang
00:49.7
Wala ka bang nanap ng leather jacket
00:57.0
Wala ka bang nanap na?
00:58.5
Naka-abroad lang ako dito.
00:59.5
Ayan, yung mga leather jacket dyan, talagang galing yan, okay.
01:02.5
Ito si Ronald, talaga, alam mo yung mga Pilipino,
01:05.5
nag-abroad lang ng isang week, hindi nasanay sa inyit,
01:07.5
sa traffic, gano'n.
01:09.0
Kamusta ang adjustment natin?
01:10.5
Eh, sa inyit ako tayo.
01:14.5
Kamusta ang adjustment natin?
01:16.5
Adjustment natin, back to the third world.
01:18.5
Hindi matulog, gansag.
01:20.5
So, ayusin natin yung adjust...
01:21.5
Ito na, magdaldalan tayo. That's always one of the best therapy.
01:24.5
Magdaldalan tayo ng midnight.
01:26.5
Ito na si Egon, big L.
01:28.5
Si big L, nag-jet-lag din yata.
01:31.5
Medyo sabog sumagot eh, medyo every three days sumasagot.
01:34.5
Pero, nangako sa akin yun na pag-uusapan namin ng Gumborza, kasaysayan, gano'n.
01:39.5
Which, we're gonna have a mini-episode, kasi mamaya gusto natin pag-uusapan,
01:42.5
hindi lang yung usual suspects, no.
01:44.5
I wanna talk to you, Ronald, about one of my favorites, si Isabela de los Reyes, no.
01:47.5
So, pag-uusapan natin later on yan, medyo iba yung kasaysayan, medyo...
01:50.5
And then, mag-Russian Revolution tayo, October Revolution.
01:53.5
Mayroon namang painting niya sa library.
01:56.5
Lodi yan, Ilocano yan.
01:58.5
Ilocano yan, don't forget.
01:59.5
Alright, alright.
02:00.5
O, Ilocano yan, Isabela de los Reyes.
02:02.5
You know, his biggest work was...
02:04.5
He was also a traveler.
02:05.5
He learned about progressive ideology sa Europe.
02:09.5
Especially France, Spain.
02:11.5
He was an anthropologist.
02:12.5
So, a lot of his anthropology was about Ilocano anthropology.
02:15.5
And he showed yung roots ng Ilocano anthropology.
02:17.5
Actually, a lot of that was influenced by Spain, etc.
02:19.5
So, marami siyang...
02:20.5
So, he was showing na ang superstition na hindi Filipino.
02:23.5
Actually, a lot of superstition that we have in Ilocos came from the Spanish.
02:27.5
Pag-usapan natin later.
02:30.5
But, let's first start with the drama of the moment.
02:33.5
Eto, narinig mo ba yung marites?
02:35.5
Daw, nagkaroon daw ng hidwan.
02:37.5
Uminig daw yung diskusyon nung si Mig Zubiri took the issue of P.I.
02:44.5
People's Initiative.
02:45.5
Hindi ito yung P.I. ni tatay.
02:47.5
Nung P.I. issue, di na lang ni Mig Zubiri kay Martin Romaldes.
02:50.5
Nagreklamo daw siya kay BBM.
02:52.5
Si BBM daw, shock!
02:53.5
Oh, what is that?
02:57.5
And then, Mig Zubiri, di ba?
02:58.5
Sir, ayaw mo yan.
02:59.5
And then, punta kay Martin.
03:00.5
Si Martin, what P.I.?
03:01.5
I don't know what you're talking about.
03:04.5
May marites ka ba na nagwala-wala daw sila?
03:07.5
Nagkita ko naman yung indications dahil nagkaroon ng press conference si President Zubiri
03:15.5
na binanata niya itong People's Initiative at saka firma.
03:19.5
Pero, a day after, medyo nag-soffer na siya.
03:24.5
Mukhang nakausap na siya ni President Bongbong.
03:26.5
At naglabas na siya nung joint resolution para sa charter change, para sa economic provisions.
03:36.5
Mayroon lang siya mga kulatilya na walang lifting of term limits, walang term extension, etc.
03:45.5
So, dalawang moment dyan.
03:48.5
Yung isang moment, yung press conference na bumalat siya.
03:51.5
Tapos, yung isang kinabukasan na mas proactive na siya.
03:55.5
Let's do this. Pero, ito yung limits. Ito yung gagawin natin.
04:02.5
Mahirap kasing, hindi naman kasi kiniklaim ni Speaker publicly na siya yung behind sa People's Initiative.
04:09.5
Parang, it's an orfan.
04:12.5
Kasi nga People's Initiative. Kasi nga people.
04:15.5
Lalo na after nung ed sa puwera mo.
04:21.5
Walang gustong mag-claim ng People's Initiative.
04:25.5
Kapag nagaling nung ed sa puwera na yun, yung mga hindi nilang mga kaaway, biglang naging kaaway.
04:30.5
At yung doon naman ed sa crowd, hindi nilang nabuhayan.
04:35.5
Parang pwede na yun.
04:37.5
Kasi dinikit mo yung People's Initiative sa masyadong pro-foreign.
04:44.5
Oh, yes. Isa pa yun.
04:46.5
So, sabi ko, sino bang bumawa? Maganda pa naman yung pagkakakawa.
04:50.5
Pero yung substance eh.
04:52.5
Nakikipag-away sa mga hindi lang pa dapat away.
04:55.5
Baka double agent yung gumawa. Sinabo tayo, di ba?
05:00.5
Hindi. Reverse trap.
05:02.5
Kahunggas ka ba yung bali?
05:04.5
Yung mga talking heads, hindi aamin yan.
05:06.5
Kahunggas ka ba yun?
05:08.5
Tapos, mismo yung aban.
05:10.5
Mismo yung sponsor na firma dati.
05:14.5
Kukuha ka ba naman yung sponsor ng ed sa puwera ad na controversial na nga?
05:19.5
Ang ginawa mo pa yung dating firma.
05:24.5
Bumawa nyo yung sobrang politically sophisticated.
05:28.5
Hindi ko maunawaan kung ano talaga yung political objective.
05:33.5
Baka suntok sa buwan lang yan.
05:35.5
Pero sa Ronald, taningin mo lang.
05:37.5
Alam ko kasi it was a probe. Alam ko hindi siya approved.
05:40.5
Pero it was a probe to start the ball rolling.
05:43.5
The probe exploded in their faces.
05:46.5
At nadama yung mga proponents ng People's Initiative na ayaw pa kumamin.
05:52.5
Naalala mo Ronald?
05:54.5
Yung ginawa ni Mocausan na yung sayaw Pepe, Idete, Rallis mo?
06:09.5
Tapos nasira ni Ronald.
06:11.5
Agay kaka-partner ni Mocausan.
06:13.5
Actually yung kasama niya doon na sumasayaw, Taguagyo rin yun.
06:17.5
Message na message yan.
06:20.5
O. Kapsad. Gastoy. Gastoy.
06:21.5
Sabi ko, ano pinaggagawain niya?
06:23.7
naalala mo na galit-galit
06:24.9
si Coco Pimentel.
06:34.0
Like, oh my goodness.
06:37.2
just when I thought
06:38.1
that was like the lowest
06:40.6
Itong Ed Sepuera,
06:43.0
sumabay ng konti doon.
06:45.4
hindi pa nag-take off,
06:46.6
nag-self-sabotage na kagad.
06:50.4
meron bang ganun dating
06:51.8
na natitumakit itong
06:54.5
take-off strategy?
06:55.6
Yung acceleration,
06:58.1
sumabog yung engine?
07:01.7
yung nag-participate
07:06.0
Not to Wang Wang.
07:09.1
with Secretary Jimenez.
07:23.6
pero at the same time,
07:25.3
merong political agenda.
07:27.2
yun yung pan, no?
07:30.1
hindi mo yung internet test
07:35.9
Para lahat ng mga
07:37.1
positive na negative
07:38.7
Ito parang tinest
07:42.1
ang pipiliin naman,
07:50.6
kanina may kamaritest ako
07:53.1
yung mga iba dyan.
07:55.1
wala bang ilang araw?
07:56.3
Andun na yung mga,
07:57.5
ito yung firma namin
07:58.2
sa probinsya namin.
07:59.2
Nakaready na lahat.
08:00.9
mabilis tumakbo yata
08:02.1
ang akapanahon natin
08:04.6
So, I think some people
08:05.5
thought they could just
08:07.2
habang lahat tayo
08:23.2
what was going on there?
08:27.3
parang hindi ako sure
08:28.2
kung sapat ng six years.
08:30.3
mga matitinong presidente
08:37.4
what do you remember
08:38.6
from President Aquino?
08:40.6
may isang interview siya
08:44.2
Correct, correct.
08:47.9
especially dun sa
08:49.2
economic provision.
08:51.2
that was just one interview.
08:53.3
sabi ko nga sa mga kaibigan
08:56.6
Never yan napagusapan
08:58.5
Never napagusapan yan
08:59.7
in a smaller group.
09:00.7
Never napagusapan yan
09:01.7
sa Liberal Party.
09:03.5
there was no push.
09:09.1
na lahat ng gobyerno
09:18.2
kahit nung height
09:19.0
ng kanyang popularity.
09:20.6
just one interview.
09:23.2
napagusapan sa cabinet.
09:24.8
Hindi yan napagusapan
09:26.0
sa smaller group,
09:28.7
Hindi yan napagusapan
09:29.6
sa political party
09:30.7
or political coalition
09:33.0
Hindi lang kasi dapat
09:33.6
pag-uusapan yan eh.
09:35.5
At ayaw ganawin ni Pinoy
09:36.9
yung konstitusyon
09:38.7
ng kanyang magulang.
09:40.1
Nag-toy siya sa idea
09:46.8
may ginagawa naman eh.
09:47.9
Merong kang public services
09:52.5
kung yan ang target mo,
09:54.2
yan ang economic,
09:55.5
may paraan para gawin yan
09:56.8
na hindi mo i-overhaul
09:58.5
o hindi mo bubuksan
09:59.7
yung Pandora's box.
10:06.8
in one and a half years,
10:09.0
yung tatlong modes
10:10.5
of changing the constitution
10:11.8
were put on the table.
10:13.8
Constitutional Convention
10:15.5
Constitutional Assembly.
10:16.5
It was initiative.
10:18.7
yung dalawa na yan,
10:19.6
Constitutional Assembly.
10:20.6
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:21.2
in less than one and a half years,
10:24.7
ng charter change
10:31.7
Desperate mode na to.
10:34.2
Yung paborito mo eh.
10:35.0
Yung revolutionary government.
10:36.9
aminin natin, Ronald,
10:39.1
may pag-asa tayong pumasok
10:40.6
pag may revolutionary government.
10:42.4
Either magulag tayong dalawa
10:44.2
or nandun tayo sa loob.
10:46.3
Or pwede both, di ba?
10:47.7
First mapasok tayo
10:48.8
tapos ma-perch tayong dalawa.
10:50.6
Hindi ba naririnig-rinig ngayon eh.
10:52.6
Yung revolutionary government.
10:53.8
Namiss ko nga yun.
10:54.8
Namiss ko yung mga ganun.
10:56.6
revolutionary government.
10:58.5
Ano ba yung sinabi ni Digong?
11:00.3
Meron pa siyang iba eh.
11:02.1
He even used the term hunta,
11:04.0
Na totally wala siya
11:07.1
Bilipo ko kay Digong, ha?
11:10.5
icon ng press freedom
11:13.9
Hindi siya ngayon
11:14.8
ang icon of democracy.
11:20.6
sa Ligang Batas, oh.
11:21.9
Ang ganda-ganda naman yan, no?
11:24.8
Sa isang reporter
11:27.8
di ba po balak niya
11:29.3
yung pasitutusyon?
11:40.0
Anong intervention ni
11:43.5
Hindi, paano yun?
11:44.2
Dati nilang kakawai
11:45.5
na naging kakampib nila,
11:46.7
yung mga nugrales,
11:49.5
ng people's initiative
11:51.0
So, threatened sila don?
11:53.2
Kamimilit daw ng signature,
11:55.7
very self-righteous ngayon,
11:58.4
biglang nagkuron ng boses
11:59.8
yung committee on silence,
12:03.7
Pero parang yung ano, yung oof. No, I mean, parang alam ko, correct me if I'm wrong, may pag-uusapan natin more than, may mga dilawan din daw.
12:13.7
Siyempre naman, never kita kinukure.
12:15.6
Hindi, hindi, hindi. Kasi minsan, hindi talaga ako sure. Most of the time sure ako, pero minsan hindi ako sure.
12:22.6
Hindi, may narinig ako na may mga dilawan daw na parang medyo nakikian sa kabila, sa Duterte camp, to push back against itong Chacha kasi they see Marcos still as the...
12:31.7
Ito yung mga never Marcos type na dilawan. May narinig ka bang ganyan?
12:37.9
Kasi ang question ko dito is, do you think enough noise has been made for BBM to seriously not...
12:47.3
Ano ba talaga nangyari? Is this Martin Romales just doing his own thing again? And BBM kinda just... Ano ba talaga nangyari?
12:54.3
Okay, yun yung kaibahan sa charter change last year. Paano na nip in the bud yung charter change last year?
13:01.7
Dahil sabi ng presidente, hindi niya priority, hindi tama yung timing, tapos totally nireject ni Senate President Subiri. So hindi siya nakaabante.
13:16.5
Ngayon, parang nasoffer na nila si Speaker Subiri yung ganyang objections, baka merong binigay ng mga concessions na voting separately, hindi didissolve yung Senate, etc.
13:30.1
At si President Bongbong Marcos, mukhang may blessing na. Kaya yun yung kaibahan from the cha-cha last year.
13:41.0
Ngayon, hindi ko alam kung kakayahanin pa rin dahil kulang sa panahon eh. Sa October, filing of candidacy.
13:48.3
Yeah, yun yung argument mo.
13:51.4
Tapos midterm lang, next year. So I'm not sure kung mahabol nila. Ang alam ko, hinahabol yung signatures by next week.
14:00.1
Pero after nung nadaan yan sa Comelec, tapos may magsasampan ng prasos, sigurado ko sa Supreme Court, like Christian Monsod, yung mga gumawa ng 87 Constitution, hindi ko sure kung ano magiging reaction ng Supreme Court dahil karamihan dyan hindi appointed ni BBM.
14:21.4
But who may not necessarily be loyal to appointed them before too, considering what I'm just saying.
14:30.1
Negosyasyon pa yan. Because unlike other Supreme Courts, hindi naman ideological yung ating Supreme Court. Hindi silang nailagay dyan on ideological grounds.
14:40.8
Like US na more conservative versus liberal.
14:43.9
So yun yung argument. So I'm almost sure kung mabilis na aaprubahan yung People's Initiative. Tapos yung Supreme Court, so nagkuhan yan.
15:00.1
Kung mayroon, kukuha yan ng time. At they don't have the luxury of time.
15:07.1
Kasi ang basa mo is, kung abo tayo ng 2026, the conversation is already 2028.
15:14.6
And parang huwag na, tataya na tayo dun sa susunod. Most likely, as things stand, it's still gonna be Sara or maybe Tulfo kind in the mix, right?
15:22.9
Yeah, whoever yung proponent nito, we'll go for broke.
15:27.5
We'll go for broke.
15:30.1
Yung mga pinag-uusapan, yung elephant in the room. Sabi ko nga sa isang interview ko kanina sa isang tele-radyo, dapat huwag matakot yung mga Duterte dito sa chacha.
15:39.9
Dapat mas matakot sila sa ICC na baka mauna. Baka mas mauna sa chacha.
15:47.8
People's Initiative din natin yan.
15:49.6
Pero gagamitin nila ito as a target on the back of the president.
15:55.1
Gagamitin nila ito as a target on the back of the government.
16:00.1
Medyo nabubuhay ng konti yung dating dormant EDSA crowd.
16:06.2
Dahil medyo kiniskish yung mukha nila dito sa EDSA.
16:10.8
EDSA puwera, oo. Medyo nabuhayan sila, yun.
16:15.1
Hindi naman talaga bumabalat pasyado, di ba?
16:18.7
Correct, correct.
16:19.6
Para ang Richard Zaidarian, hindi masyado bumabalat.
16:21.9
Pero naka-yellow. Nag-dilawan mode tayo. May nag-comment ka dito eh.
16:27.1
Oo, correcto. Pinag-secretary.
16:30.1
Di ba? Liberal Party dati yan, no? Etcetera.
16:33.0
Baka naman, Marohas.
16:34.8
So medyo kinapos ng political sabi yung EDSA puwera na yan.
16:41.0
Remember yung gumawa niyan.
16:42.5
Kaya hugas kamay yung mga proponents ng People's Initiative.
16:47.8
Kawawa naman yung...
16:50.0
Diba? Siyempre may gastos diyan.
16:51.8
Kawawa naman kung saan galing.
16:53.5
Malaki, malaki. Maganda magkakagawa eh.
16:55.5
Maganda magkakagawa.
16:56.2
Eso, kawawa yung gumastos diyan.
16:58.7
Yung lang masasabi ko.
16:59.7
Now, of course...
17:00.1
Yung isang Committee on Science.
17:03.9
Kamusta si Robin Hood Padilla, yung ating best friend?
17:07.5
Ronald, anong drama niya?
17:10.0
Nung lumabas itong People's Initiative, parang amenable siya.
17:14.6
Pero after a couple of days, didlang kumontra na siya.
17:17.8
Siguro na pagsabihan na, wala pang galitan na.
17:20.2
Pero si Francis Tolentino, na member ng PDP Laban,
17:23.6
at kasama dyan sa grupo ngayon, tahimik.
17:27.7
Pwede siya nang tansyong ng midterms.
17:30.1
Baka hindi siya sumamast sa PDP Laban.
17:35.1
Pero, balikan natin ito.
17:36.5
Anong ba sa tingin mo?
17:38.4
You think most of the time si...
17:41.6
Hindi kasi ganito eh, Ronald.
17:42.7
Again, I know your theory is like,
17:45.3
some big things wouldn't happen without the blessing from the very top.
17:48.3
But what I'm also getting from the ground,
17:50.4
and from the people who are also in the circles,
17:52.7
is that may mga times daw, the tail wags the dog.
17:55.6
Na may principal agent problem, di ba?
17:58.9
Not necessarily...
18:00.1
Ito yung nasa Malacanang ang, you know, aware or totally nag-oversee ng mga kung ano na dyan.
18:05.6
Like, for instance, I was told about the ABS-CBN issue.
18:08.3
Na iba yung gusto ni BBM, iba yung gusto nung isa.
18:11.3
At mukhang nanalo yung isa sa issue ng ABS-CBN so far.
18:14.8
And then dito sa issue ng People's Initiative,
18:17.2
I won't be surprised that BBM was like, vaguely involved there
18:21.2
and not necessarily fully behind it.
18:23.0
So now that he's against it, I don't see that as totally insincere.
18:26.2
I think nag-gets ni BBM na mukhang sablay itong nangyari.
18:29.2
So he's now suddenly disney.
18:30.8
Pero minamonitor ko yung mga public statements.
18:33.2
Parang, kung para last year,
18:35.2
mas open siya sa charter chains based on the economic provisions.
18:39.1
Truth, truth, truth.
18:39.6
Yun yung sinabi niya publicly.
18:42.1
Pero syempre, bilang presidente at sa style of leadership ni President Bongbong Marcos,
18:47.9
naglalagay din siya ng exit laws.
18:51.5
Palimbawa, ay katulad itong EDSA Puerra naging negative,
18:56.2
yung People's Initiative.
18:57.0
Kung sakaling hindi ito mag-succeed,
18:59.3
ayaw naman niyang ma-identify.
19:00.1
Siya nang ma-identify sa isang failure.
19:02.1
Kaya pwede niyang sabihin,
19:04.1
ay hindi ko naman talaga sinuportahan yan.
19:06.1
Open na po yung principle.
19:08.1
Plausible deniability.
19:11.1
Kung ako, if I were the president,
19:12.1
at ito yung style of leadership ko,
19:14.1
ito yung personality ko,
19:16.1
gagawa ko ng escape route.
19:18.1
Kung sakaling hindi mag-prosper
19:20.1
o kaya ay magkaroon ng EDSA Puerra incidents along the way,
19:26.1
ay pwede ko sabihin ay hindi ko yan sinuportahan.
19:29.1
Pero tingin ko at this point,
19:31.1
ay meron siyang blessing.
19:33.1
Dahil sa inyong mga public pronouncements.
19:36.1
So parang blessing in principle,
19:39.1
but on the tactics po.
19:41.1
Hindi po siya yung Senate President
19:43.1
na hindi kinausap ng Presidente.
19:45.1
After nung kanyang very sharp press conference
19:49.1
against People's Initiative,
19:51.1
saka against PIRMA.
19:53.1
Although yun nga,
19:54.1
I find the intervention by Migs Ubir
19:56.1
kind of parang desperate-ish.
19:59.1
di ba ang argument ni Migs Ubir is that
20:00.1
nakapasa naman tayo ng mga batas
20:02.1
doon sa revision of yung investment restrictions
20:04.1
sa public services, etc.
20:06.1
Actually, totoo naman.
20:08.1
And kulang lang yung implementing rules and regulations.
20:10.1
Nadidelay lang yan.
20:11.1
Pero hindi niya completely makontrol yan.
20:13.1
So parang point niya,
20:16.1
Parating na yung in-order na natin yung kotse.
20:17.1
Mag-order na naman kayo na isa pang kotse.
20:19.1
Parang wait lang.
20:20.1
May grab na parating.
20:21.1
Di ba? May grab na parating.
20:25.1
Parang relax ka lang.
20:27.1
Yun ang basa ko sa kanya.
20:29.1
So it looks like that.
20:31.1
But you think Martin Romualdo is really, ano?
20:35.1
Is this a tactical retreat
20:36.1
or talagang ipit na siya?
20:38.1
Iba kasi yung Senate.
20:39.1
These are 24 separate kingdoms.
20:42.1
At karamihan sa kanila,
20:43.1
may planong maging vice or presidente.
20:46.1
Kaya binabalansin din yan
20:47.1
ng leader ng Senate,
20:49.1
ng Senate president.
20:50.1
Binabalansin din yan.
20:52.1
Usually, ang away dyan,
20:54.1
yung voting separately
20:56.1
or voting together.
20:58.1
Kaya tingin ko nung nag-soften si
21:00.1
Senate President Zubiriri ay
21:02.1
baka meron siyang nakukang counting concession.
21:06.1
pag nabuksa na yan,
21:12.1
Pwede na lahat mangyari.
21:14.1
So baka doon yung reservation
21:18.1
at this point, kahit in principle,
21:20.1
siliportahan niya yung charter change
21:22.1
ni Senate President Zubiriri.
21:24.1
Doon yung reservation.
21:25.1
Doon yung reservation.
21:27.1
Ako, just to close this episode.
21:30.1
No, exactly. Yun nga eh.
21:32.1
Medyo conjectural tayo at this point in time.
21:34.1
We're humble enough to accept na
21:36.1
this is at best educated conjecture.
21:39.1
Hindi bagay sa atin ang humble.
21:41.1
Well, humble brag.
21:46.1
Going back to this,
21:47.1
I want to close this episode on this note.
21:50.1
kaya nga akong medyo slightly disagree sa'yo
21:52.1
doon sa the conflagration of unity,
21:54.1
uniting kind of direction.
21:58.1
still you want to avoid going for gold.
22:00.1
I mean, freezing the ISIS equation for a while.
22:02.1
Dahil, if you want to go against the Dutertes,
22:04.1
you want to make sure you have the guy
22:07.1
to succeed you and protect you from
22:09.1
any retribution in the future.
22:11.1
Eh kung yung tao na nagpo-position
22:13.1
na mag-succeed sa kanya ay
22:15.1
napaka-baba yung approval rating.
22:17.1
At ngayon mukhang sumabla
22:19.1
yung kanyang initiative to change the constitution
22:21.1
at mukhang yung plans for being a prime minister
22:23.1
are not looking as certain as before.
22:27.1
doesn't that put pressure on BBM to
22:29.1
keep things on an even keel with the Dutertes
22:32.1
until the ICC question comes up
22:35.1
or until he feels,
22:36.1
I don't know, maybe someone like Tulfo is around
22:38.1
that he can support
22:39.1
and then he can put...
22:41.1
there's no reason for BBM to go all out against the Dutertes
22:43.1
unless he's sure he has someone he can trust
22:46.1
to succeed him and to protect him in the future
22:48.1
just in case may retribution
22:49.1
from the Dutertes
22:51.1
who are not necessarily going to be happy.
22:53.1
It's about trust eh.
22:57.1
magpagkakatiwalaan mo ba si Tigong?
22:59.1
Lalo na pag sinabi niya,
23:01.1
Uy, comfortable ako kay Richard Hedarian.
23:03.1
Gusto ko siya makakausap indirectly, etc.
23:07.1
So, tingin ko may minimum na
23:09.1
may minimum naman na
23:12.1
dunong yung Malacanang
23:14.1
para i-take that with a lot of salt.
23:18.1
Lalo na hindi naman nag-scale down
23:20.1
yun yung mga blubbers.
23:23.1
Ex-human rights lawyer,
23:26.1
ang kanyang statement a few days ago,
23:29.1
magpa-blood test,
23:31.1
magpa-drug test ang presidente.
23:33.1
Tapos si Maharlika,
23:35.1
urging Congress na naimbestigahan
23:37.1
yung purong video na hindi ko alam kung nasaan.
23:40.1
So, ibig sabihin,
23:41.1
after nung presko ni Tigong,
23:43.1
hindi nag-scale down.
23:46.1
bumaba na si Pulong, si Tigong,
23:49.1
So, hindi ko nakikita yung data,
23:51.1
hindi ko nakikita yung scaling down.
23:53.1
From the side of the Duterte,
23:55.1
at kahit medyo tahimik
23:57.1
yung mga kanyang tungkol dyan,
24:02.1
halos sigurado ko,
24:04.1
they're not taking this,
24:06.1
they're not taking this as a,
24:08.1
hindi sila nagtitiwala,
24:11.1
Kaya, at alam nila,
24:13.1
na after midterms,
24:15.1
kung malakas pa rin ang mga Duterte,
24:18.1
there's no question about
24:20.1
the Duterte protecting BBM.
24:21.1
They will destroy them.
24:25.1
Hindi variable yun,
24:27.1
yung issue na yun.
24:31.1
wala akong nakikita ang scaling down.
24:33.1
Mismo yung paborito mong
24:35.1
ex-human rights lawyer,
24:37.1
magpa-drug test daw ang presidente.
24:39.1
Baka naman nag-freelancing yung mga yan,
24:42.1
walang coordination necessarily.
24:45.1
ganito, sasabihin ko Ronald,
24:46.1
maganda kasi sa engagement nila.
24:48.1
Pag si Buljak, si Banat, mga ganun.
24:50.1
Pag binabanatan nila si BBM,
24:52.1
si Buljak for sure,
24:54.1
tuwang-tuwa yung mga followers niya.
24:56.1
I mean, I know many people are watching her
24:58.1
just for entertainment.
25:00.1
So baka naman we're over-reading,
25:02.1
baka it's not marching orders,
25:04.1
it's just theatrics, fiesta.
25:06.1
Anong tawag niya ni Marx?
25:08.1
Economic Determinism.
25:10.1
Ayan na naman tayo eh.
25:12.1
It is determined by the sources of funds.
25:15.1
So, yung mga vloggers,
25:18.1
hindi naman yan for free.
25:20.1
Hindi naman yan katulad ng small R at saka big R.
25:25.1
Ronald, malaking kita mo yan
25:27.1
pag mataas ang engagement nila.
25:29.1
Mayaman na sila sa YouTube.
25:31.1
Kaya hindi yan basta kapal lang eh,
25:34.1
na katulad natin.
25:36.1
We blow the wind.
25:42.1
Wala akong sinabi ah.
25:44.1
Mamaya magkocomment si Moca Uso na siya
25:47.1
kasi Banat dito sa akin.
25:48.1
Last time nagkocomment sila
25:50.1
kung nag-usap kami.
25:52.1
Siguro in the future, mag-RRB na rin tayo.
25:54.1
Ronald Richard and Buljakan
25:57.1
or something like that.
26:00.1
So, I think we can close on this episode.
26:03.1
Let's move now to the next episode.
26:05.1
Pag-uusapan naman natin yung
26:06.1
foreign policy favorite ni BBM.
26:09.1
Diba, kakabalik lang niya from...
26:11.1
Kala mo Ronald, ikaw lang nakabalik from abroad.
26:13.1
Si BBM nakabalik from abroad
26:14.1
just before he goes to abroad again next week.
26:17.1
So, pag-usapan natin yan.
26:19.1
Very interesting country.
26:20.1
Obviously, may connection din ito sa China.
26:23.1
Ito, ito, ito, ito.
26:32.1
Secretary Llamas for joining us.
26:34.1
Nag-xie xie din ang Taiwanese.
26:35.1
Newly elected President and outgoing Vice President William Lai.
26:41.1
President Ferdinand Marcos Jr.
26:45.1
Nagta-trash talk nung isa raw.
26:47.1
SD card President versus ano President.
26:49.1
Inayon naman tayo.
26:50.1
Renegade President.
26:53.1
Last lang muna tayo.
26:54.1
Diplomatic tayo for a moment.
26:55.1
O, ito sabi ni BBM na congratulate siya.
26:58.1
Kailangan na kanyang moment na diplomatic tayo.
27:00.1
Hindi, hindi, hindi.
27:03.1
Medyo 10 minutes na lang.
27:09.1
Ito, sinabi ni Marcos Jr. na congratulate siya sa newly elected President of Taiwan.
27:14.1
And he said, you have to, you know, more cooperation, peace and security region and mutual interest.
27:19.1
You have to focus on mutual interest.
27:20.1
Within, you know, an hour or so, nag-respond naman si President-elect Lai.
27:25.1
And he congratulated.
27:26.1
I say, he thanks so much the Philippines.
27:28.1
And said, may special relationship tayo.
27:30.1
And he called for more economic cooperation.
27:32.1
Importantly, sabi niya, championing democracy.
27:35.1
Mining tayo mga democracy.
27:36.1
So, is this about great wall of democracy?
27:39.1
I don't know, like Taiwan, Philippines, Japan, US together?
27:42.1
Or nagpakiyot lang si BBM?
27:43.1
What's going on here?
27:44.1
Because nagalit ang China.
27:45.1
For China, this was potentially violation or they contend that this is a violation of
27:50.1
one China policy.
27:51.1
Because anong Presidente sinasabi mo?
27:53.1
Ang nangyari dyan is an illegal election in a renegade province.
27:57.1
This is the position of China.
27:58.1
So bakit ka nagmamaganda doon?
28:00.1
How do you read this?
28:01.1
Parang wala tayong ibang Presidente na ganoon, no?
28:04.1
I don't remember any President since 1996 na na-introducing the election in Taiwan who
28:10.1
so openly congratulated and warmly talked about by Lai.
28:12.1
Ikaw Ronald, do you know something?
28:14.1
I mean, tell us about your own experience of dealing with Taiwan.
28:16.1
Yung nabasa ko yan, yung congratulations na yan, ay umasok sa isip ang aking thought
28:25.1
Baka hindi niya alam yung one China policy.
28:29.1
Tapos yung inyong friends ko sa DMA, laka-text ko, sila sabi niya, oops!
28:34.1
Hindi ko kailangan sabihin kung sino yung mga ngayon.
28:37.1
Kaya dahil, ayun nga, may protocols dyan eh.
28:41.1
Dapat kukonsultre mo yung DMA.
28:43.1
Dapat pag-uusapan yan, etc. etc.
28:46.1
Lalo na, very delicate ang Taiwan.
28:48.1
At saka may one China policy tayo.
28:50.1
Kaya ngayon, binaback pedal na yan.
28:53.1
Hindi, congratulations naman yan para dahil sa pagtulog sa ating mga OFW.
28:58.1
Which was totally not mentioned dun sa tweet ni BBM.
29:02.1
Totally not mentioned.
29:04.1
So nakikita natin.
29:06.1
Suportato natin ang Presidente dyan.
29:09.1
Basta sa usapin ng China.
29:13.1
Very sharp yung statement ni Guibo eh.
29:16.1
Bakit pupunta bagong law yan ng Minister of Foreign Affairs ng China.
29:24.1
Kaya yung trash talk na yan.
29:26.1
A new law even for China.
29:29.1
Siyempre, dapat all the king's men will support the President.
29:34.1
Will support the President.
29:36.1
Ganon din ang DFA, etc.
29:38.1
So let's leave it at that.
29:40.1
Kahit alam natin na medyo may konti oops.
29:43.1
Kahit yung mga ibang bansa na supporting sa Taiwan.
29:47.1
Hindi ginawa yan.
29:49.1
Hindi ginawa yan.
29:51.1
Well, I'll tell you Ronald.
29:53.1
Ginawa ng Singapore.
29:54.1
So baka it's more about.
29:56.1
Diba sabi ni BBM kung hindi niyo pinaano yung tatay ko yung sa puwera na yan.
30:00.1
Di sana Singapore.
30:01.1
Mala Singapore na tayo.
30:02.1
Baka it's about us and Singapore and first world countries together with Taiwan.
30:07.1
Baka may pagkaganyan siyang drama.
30:11.1
Hindi ko na isa second guess yung prosedure.
30:15.1
Ngayon ganyan ka na Ronald.
30:16.1
Kung ano yung kanilang spin.
30:18.1
Tama na. Tama na yung diplomatic.
30:20.1
Okay na yun. Okay na yun.
30:22.1
Masyado ka ng diplomatic.
30:23.1
Hindi ako for me.
30:25.1
What if this is not an oops moment.
30:28.1
Let's push the envelope.
30:29.1
Let's see where this goes.
30:32.1
Maybe the President is pressing.
30:35.1
He's taking advantage and seeing how the rest will catch up or good cup, bad cup.
30:41.1
I don't think the President is that clueless.
30:43.1
Pero sana Richard may ibang bansang nag-follow na katina yung example.
30:48.1
Pero for now wala eh.
30:49.1
So medyo lone ranger si BBM dyan sa congratulations.
30:56.1
The United Kingdom.
30:57.1
The United States.
30:58.1
Leading democracies of the world.
31:01.1
Flagship democracies.
31:03.1
Kung titignan mo.
31:04.1
Medyo nu-luans yung kanilang mga statement.
31:08.1
Pinag-aralan niya.
31:09.1
Pinupus group discussion niya.
31:12.1
Baka sa malakanyang kabaragi.
31:13.1
Yan ang ginagawa mo.
31:19.1
Dahil hindi sila nagbayad sa Twitter.
31:20.1
Hanggang 200 characters lang pwede.
31:21.1
Hindi nila nilagay.
31:22.1
Yung yung mga caveats.
31:23.1
Dapat towards the end.
31:24.1
But we still adhere to the one China.
31:30.1
Sabagay yung competitors.
31:58.1
Hindi nila Pourquois?
32:00.1
I mean, North Cross naman, no system.
32:03.2
Oo naman. I mean,
32:04.1
Siena International Bureau Chief yan.
32:10.0
dapat tumulong ka mga goodbyes
32:12.2
sa mga kanyang mga pagbabagayin
32:13.9
ng... Hindi nga eh.
32:15.7
Sul-sul pa nga eh. I piled
32:18.3
on it. Nakakatawa lang kami
32:19.9
ng paliwanag ngayon. Ay, para sa mga
32:21.9
OFW natin yan. Oo, diba?
32:24.6
Like, wala man lang
32:27.7
Kaya, kawawa rin.
32:29.5
Hindi, tsaka hindi kawawa. Or hindi.
32:31.2
In a way, kawawa rin si ano, yung
32:33.0
ano natin. Sino yung, ano yung
32:34.5
do-tari natin ngayon
32:38.8
Meko. Meko. Meko natin. Si ano, diba?
32:42.6
Kasi kaya Velo, yeah. Bebot. Bebot, yeah, yeah.
32:45.3
So siguro mga Taiwanese masyadong
32:46.9
excited na yan. Pinapakain na siya.
32:49.6
Sir, ano na? Ano na ang next project
32:51.2
natin? Tapos, hindi ko alam kahit
32:54.6
one-china rin kami. Siguro gano'n, diba?
32:58.8
Ikaw, Ronald. Kasi, I'll tell you what.
33:00.7
Of course, I mean, just for purpose of transparency,
33:03.1
I was based in Taiwan for quite some time
33:04.5
as a visiting scholar. I met, you know,
33:07.3
President Ma, President Tsai,
33:08.8
a lot of people. So I've been following what's happening in Taiwan
33:10.7
for quite some time.
33:12.8
And one of the things I understood,
33:15.1
and siguro, Ronald, you can also come in,
33:16.6
because a lot of things happened during your era, when you guys
33:18.8
were in power, was actually we had many
33:20.9
tense moments with Taiwan, diba?
33:22.4
Yung isang tense moment is yung pinatay yung kanilang
33:24.5
fisherman ng ating coast guard, diba?
33:27.0
Noong 2013. So, actually,
33:28.7
nag-ultimate naman Taiwan. There were attacks on
33:30.6
Filipino community in Taiwan. So, panon niyan.
33:33.3
Na-resolve lang niyan 2019,
33:35.1
diba? Noong nagkaroon ng court ruling on this issue.
33:37.1
Ang daming back and forth yan. Even si
33:38.6
Secretary de Lima was in the heat of the action
33:40.8
because they were asking for joint investigation.
33:43.4
But we cannot have joint investigation
33:44.6
with a country that we do not recognize, you know?
33:46.7
Ang gulo na, diba? That was a big, big problem.
33:50.0
For sure, Pinoy, nagkaroon ng incident.
33:52.3
May uli pa yung triads, no?
33:54.4
Tapos, yun pa, yung drug as...
33:57.0
dala natin sa mainland. So, nagalit yung
33:58.9
Taiwan dyan, no? And then, not to mention,
34:01.3
noong lumabas yung arbitration award
34:02.8
right after you guys left power,
34:04.9
Taiwan rejected yung arbitration
34:06.8
award natin ng UNCLOS sa West Philippine Sea
34:10.7
nagaling yung 9-9.
34:18.1
the DPP did not reject.
34:20.6
I remember very well, I asked President Saingwen
34:22.8
on this issue. In particular,
34:24.6
Saingwen, you know, both of them are lawyers.
34:27.0
In law, both si Ma and Chaka Tsai.
34:28.8
Si Ma, medyo kuku yung mga sinasabi niya.
34:31.1
Parang, ang kini-claim ni Ma na meron silang
34:33.0
exclusive economic zone na 200 nautical miles.
34:35.1
E di, abot na yan sa Iloho, sir.
34:38.4
Wait lang, nasa Vigan na kayo.
34:41.4
Sa inyo na rin ang Vigan.
34:42.8
Medyo kuku yan. Pero yun kay Tsai,
34:44.8
parang, ang disappointment ko sa Taiwan,
34:46.8
and I'm saying this as a friend of Taiwan, is that
34:48.6
parang hindi nila nagdinidistansya yung
34:50.7
9-9 pa rin, kahit hindi naman komintang
34:52.6
pa rin yung power. But more importantly,
34:55.2
nag-disagree sila sa arbitration award natin.
34:57.0
Kasi sinabi ng arbitration award, among others,
34:58.9
yung Itoaba na hinahawak nila,
35:00.9
eh hindi isla. Isa itong rock lang.
35:02.8
So it cannot generate enough. So actually,
35:04.9
naging isa lang, so naging kampo
35:06.9
ng China, bigla ng Taiwan,
35:11.0
Ang gulo, diba? Ang gulo nang ngyari.
35:13.0
So that's why, pansin ko,
35:15.0
medyo awkward tayo with Taiwan, eh.
35:16.6
Hindi lang dahil sa one China policy.
35:18.5
May mga ganito tayong disagreements.
35:20.4
Can you tell us about your story?
35:23.1
Kasi ikaw, nag-Vietnam ka na,
35:24.7
and dealing with other countries during arbitration.
35:26.4
Did you have any significant
35:28.4
interaction with Taiwanese? Or may ano pa rin?
35:30.3
May parang semi-blockade diplomatic?
35:33.5
Kasi ang hirap, diba?
35:34.4
Maraming liit ng interaction natin, eh.
35:36.1
May nangyari siya yung office na rito,
35:37.3
more or less parang kwento lang.
35:40.6
Getting to know you,
35:44.3
Tya-tsa lang, ganun-ganun.
35:46.7
Kabalan, alam mo naman,
35:48.0
masarap ang kabalan.
35:49.5
Ayan na naman tayo, eh.
35:52.3
Ayan na naman tayo, eh.
35:54.4
Siningit na naman.
35:56.4
Tapos, alam ko yung nangyari
35:57.8
nung first year ni Pinoy,
35:59.4
doon sa mga hinuli nating mga Taiwanese triads
36:01.7
na pinadala sa mainland.
36:03.0
Di ba lang, buhay pa yung mga yun.
36:05.5
So, meron ganun mga...
36:07.5
Ay, oo nga, no. Taiwanese yung hinuli.
36:09.8
Ang inuwi, hindi sa Taiwan,
36:11.7
pero sa China. Ang gulo nun, diba?
36:13.8
Kaya kasabi ko sa kanila,
36:15.4
nung first year ni Pinoy,
36:17.2
ay nag-deferred siya sa China.
36:22.5
Unang visit ni Pinoy ay sa China
36:26.9
Pinuntahan pa nga nila yung kanilang ancestors doon, eh.
36:29.9
Sa... sa China, yung...
36:33.4
Tapos, ikat lang itong Taiwanese incident.
36:37.9
with the Chinese ambassador,
36:41.9
meron tayo nakuha ang canister sa Fort Magsaysay.
36:44.4
Pinapasodin natin sa US.
36:45.9
Ayaw naman na tumanggap
36:47.9
ng any chemical weapons.
36:49.4
Eh, sabi ni Pinoy,
36:50.4
eh sa inyo galing yan, eh.
36:51.4
So, for six, seven months,
36:53.4
hindi nga kinakausap si...
36:55.4
si yung ambassador na iyon, no?
36:58.4
So, si Harry Thomas, no?
37:00.4
Nung panahon na iyon.
37:01.4
So, nung first year ni Pinoy, no?
37:03.9
Ay nagkukuhan siya, no?
37:06.4
Hindi mo pwedeng sabihin na anti-China siya, no?
37:10.4
First state visit, Nobel Peace Prize, Taiwan,
37:13.4
tapos yung tension with the U.S. ambassador.
37:16.9
Binaliwala ko yan sa mga Chinese, no?
37:18.9
Ano? Sinasabi nila, pro-US tayo.
37:20.9
Hindi, si Pinoy, he's his own man.
37:24.4
Kahit matagal yan tubig sa U.S.
37:25.4
Yan, napansin ko, ha.
37:26.4
Pero, Ron, I'll tell you this, ha.
37:28.4
Parang feeling ko...
37:29.4
Hindi naman binastos,
37:30.4
pero parang feeling ko yung U.S. medyo...
37:33.4
They didn't give the due respect to President Aquino, no?
37:37.4
Nagkaroon ba siya ng state visit at all?
37:38.9
Ines, galit na nga si Pinoy.
37:40.4
Ines namin yung isang barko na binigay ng U.S.
37:46.4
Yung mga bulok na...
37:48.4
How can we protect our...
37:50.4
Noon, ha. Noon. Yan yung...
37:52.4
Diba? Taken for granted talaga.
37:54.4
Yung sabi daw ng U.S. na sabay-sabay tayong aatras.
37:58.4
Sa Scarborough, sa Bajo de Masilo.
38:00.4
Yung kay Trillanes.
38:02.4
Yeah, mutual disengagement.
38:04.4
Bubo yun, bubo yun.
38:05.4
Pero ang nagsabi sa atin na sabay aatras,
38:08.4
were the Americans.
38:10.4
Kurt Campbell, if I'm not mistaken.
38:11.4
Kurt Campbell was the Assistant Secretary for Asia Pacific.
38:14.4
Mga ganun klaseng mga bubu ng panahon na yan.
38:19.4
Sa ikaw, Ron, how did you feel nung minumurang-murang
38:21.4
nanitigong yung mga Amerikano na wala kang kwenta ng ambag nyo?
38:24.4
I mean, he kinda had a point sometimes, right?
38:26.4
I mean, I don't agree with...
38:27.4
Ay naman. Ay naman, Richard.
38:29.4
Lumaki tayo sa pagiging critical sa mga Americans.
38:32.4
Hindi naman. Sa mga empires in general.
38:35.4
Hindi naman tayo masyado...
38:38.4
Hindi tayo masyado affected.
38:42.4
Hindi yan fresh sa atin. Medyo laos na yung mga ganun drama.
38:47.4
Diba? Medyo gaskas na yan. Gaskas na yun.
38:49.4
Medyo weird lang. Nung sinabi ni Digong,
38:51.4
Let us build a new world order.
38:54.4
With China. With Russia.
38:57.4
Hindi lang na binanggit. Kulang na lang. North Korea.
38:59.4
Oo nga. Pati... Diba sabi...
39:02.4
Siguro sabi ni Kim...
39:03.4
Build a new world order.
39:04.4
Sabi ni Kim Jong-un, like,
39:05.4
Wait lang. Like, hello? Like...
39:08.4
Ako wala ako dyan. May hypersonic missile ako. May nuclear weapon ako.
39:12.4
Ikaw wala. Anong meron ka? Diba?
39:13.4
Tapos may broke back pa sila ni Puti, no?
39:15.4
Binib-nib-nib sila sa isa't isa. Diba?
39:17.4
Kasi I don't think...
39:19.4
Never mind. Never mind.
39:21.4
Change topic. Change topic.
39:24.4
Huwag na tayo mag-broke ka ng broke.
39:26.4
Hindi ko na imagine yung broke up.
39:29.4
Uy, may taste naman si Putin.
39:31.4
Pero anyway, balikan natin ito.
39:33.4
Balikan natin ito.
39:35.4
Nasira yung image ko.
39:38.4
Si Hattie, medyo palma.
39:42.4
Let me tell you this, Ronald.
39:44.4
Kasi ako sa akin,
39:45.4
nasasayangan talaga ako sa Taiwan kasi
39:47.4
napakalapit sa atin.
39:49.4
In fact, mas malapit sa atin kaysa any ASEAN country
39:52.4
in one way or another.
39:53.4
Although, of course,
39:54.4
yung mga dulo ng Indonesia and whatever.
39:57.4
Well, Sabah, talaga sa atin naman talaga yan.
40:00.4
But you look at ASEAN capitals, ang layo nila.
40:02.4
Yung Taipei, ang lapit lang.
40:04.4
Yung Southern Shores nila.
40:05.4
Naku, sa amin sa Ilocos,
40:06.4
pagpunta kami, narinig namin yung mga Taiwanese radio.
40:09.4
Napakalapit nila.
40:10.4
No, I mean, the thing is...
40:11.4
And Taiwan is such a developed, prosperous country.
40:14.4
One trillion dollar economy.
40:16.4
Napakayaman na bansa.
40:18.4
Biggest producer of semiconductors.
40:27.4
Dahil hindi naman natin alam yung exact records.
40:29.4
So, there's such an important country.
40:31.4
Ilan lang bang mga OFWs natin sa China?
40:34.4
And Taiwan, parang ang daming natin makuha ng investments.
40:37.4
Mayroon silang southbound investment strategy.
40:40.4
Ang daming Taiwanese na investors sa Vietnam, sa Thailand.
40:44.4
Dikit yung election during the campaign.
40:46.4
Yung tatlo na kandidato.
40:49.4
Kung nag-uniteam.
40:51.4
Kung nag-uniteam.
40:53.4
Yung independent nga.
40:58.4
Munti nila hindi nagkasundo.
41:00.4
Pero, ganung kadikit siya na.
41:03.4
Hindi sila nag-uniteam.
41:04.4
Hindi sila natuto from ano.
41:05.4
O siguro nakakita nila nangyaring unitim sa Philippines.
41:09.4
Ay, huwag natin gawin yan.
41:10.4
Wala silang tiwala.
41:11.4
Look at the Philippines.
41:13.4
Maganda yung creson.
41:14.4
Kaya hindi sila nag-uniteam.
41:16.4
Now, but going back to this.
41:17.4
Ang sinasabi ko is.
41:18.4
Ang dami natin makuha sana in terms of our relationship with Taiwan.
41:22.4
Parang mini-Japan ang Taiwan.
41:24.4
If you look at it.
41:25.4
In terms of culture.
41:26.4
In terms of levels of development.
41:28.4
Pero sobrang konti yung investment nila sa atin.
41:31.4
Compared to what they could have done.
41:32.4
Don't you think a part of this is good?
41:34.4
Masarap yung whiskey nila.
41:36.4
Masarap yung pagkain nila.
41:40.4
Ang mura ng pagkain nila.
41:41.4
Yung chicken na ganyan kalaki.
41:43.4
70 pesos lang ganun.
41:45.4
The best ng Taiwanese.
41:49.4
Don't you think that the presidents.
41:52.4
Whatever you want to call it.
41:53.4
Actually in a way may be an icebreaker for more serious discussion.
42:00.4
Kasi I doubt na makakaroon ng giyerang Taiwan anytime soon.
42:03.4
I think both Xi Jinping and Lai realize that they're playing a weak hand.
42:07.4
Both of them have economic problems at home.
42:09.4
Divided government in Taiwan.
42:11.4
Medyo kung nagsama lang yung kapila.
42:15.4
And then sa China.
42:16.4
Ang dami lang issues and problems.
42:18.4
So manggaganan yung China.
42:19.4
But I doubt anyone wants to have a war.
42:21.4
China is waiting for November.
42:23.4
Ah, US elections.
42:25.4
Ah, US elections.
43:16.0
Alimbawa kung yung high-tech industry,
43:18.2
paano high-tech ang Taiwan eh?
43:19.7
Saan silang papasok?
43:21.9
Ano yung ating i-offer sa kanila
43:24.3
in terms of infrastructure,
43:26.8
highly educated workforce,
43:32.0
So, yun yung pan eh,
43:35.3
ang dami kasi natin
43:37.8
hindi pa yan nagsimulang pumasok.
43:40.8
Dahil nga, yung lagi natin
43:42.0
pinag-uusapan is our comparative advantage.
43:44.2
Yun din ang Taiwan.
43:46.2
Yun din ang Taiwan, no?
43:47.5
But Ronald, I believe in strategic investments.
43:50.9
Para Singapore, high-tech eh.
43:53.4
Yeah, I understand. But Ronald, of course, we know also
43:55.5
investments are sometimes also geopolitically motivated.
44:00.0
can help the Philippines to create the condition
44:02.1
for more Taiwanese investment in the Philippines.
44:04.0
There could be something like that. Or there could be Japan and US
44:06.2
helping the Philippines.
44:07.4
In terms of engineering and all, marami naman tayo
44:12.4
nandito sa Pilipinas.
44:14.2
Already working with, I don't know, I...
44:16.2
So, I think, pag medyo mid-range
44:19.0
level of high-tech,
44:21.1
kasi sa high-tech, may levels din eh.
44:23.0
Baka pwede ang Pilipinas eh.
44:24.4
Ang undersecretary ng DepEd eh,
44:26.7
yung report ng PISA,
44:29.0
oh, great! No? Great daw, no?
44:31.9
Napaka-great nung
44:33.1
PISA. Kasi hindi last.
44:35.8
if I were foreigners going to here,
44:39.6
bakit nagmamalaki natin
44:40.8
yung ating pagiging the lowest
44:48.2
pupunta ako sa iba, no?
44:51.2
Who is this idiot undersecretary na
44:54.2
sabi na ang ganda lang
44:56.2
ng resulta ng PISA?
44:58.2
Baka ano yan, AI yan,
45:02.2
Misa, talagang...
45:04.2
Pwede na akong magbura dahil hindi na ako diplomatic.
45:06.2
Ayan, tapos na yung 10 minutes natin.
45:08.2
Tapos na yung 10 minutes natin.
45:09.2
Ako naman, Ronald, I mean, again,
45:11.2
I mean, I'm the last person to have illusions about
45:13.2
you know, problems in our country.
45:15.2
I always talk to investors from Japan, from US.
45:17.2
Alam mo yung mga problema nila.
45:20.2
I also believe in strategic investments.
45:22.2
Geopolitical-motivated investments.
45:24.2
Like, may interest din sila na hindi sabog at pobre ang Pilipinas.
45:27.2
Because they need...
45:29.2
The government has 4 years.
45:31.2
Diba? 4 years na lang, no?
45:33.2
At usually, yung ganyan klaseng strategic investment takes time.
45:37.2
It's a 10-year thing.
45:39.2
Yeah, it's a 10-year thing.
45:40.2
Oo, yan yung magiging problema natin.
45:42.2
Yung para sa investors, hindi nila sigurado kung sino yung susunod na gobyerno.
45:46.2
Lalo na sa isang bamsang katulad natin.
45:48.2
So, yung continuity, yung unity, medyo mahirap.
45:53.2
But chicken or egg yun eh.
45:54.2
Kasi Ronald, like, again, my argument is,
45:57.2
mag-invest na kayo kay BBM long-term para
46:00.2
mga BBM camp pa rin ang manalo sa next elections, right?
46:03.2
Kasi yun ang mali ng China, diba?
46:05.2
Wala silang investment.
46:06.2
Nung time ni Digong, tuloy sumablay si...
46:09.2
Yan din sana yung pakiusap natin sa US eh.
46:11.2
To invest with Pinoy.
46:13.2
With his successor.
46:15.2
Bet on the right chicken.
46:18.2
Yan yung one eh, no?
46:20.2
Yun nga, short-sighted din sila.
46:22.2
Short-sighted din tayo.
46:27.2
Siyempre, patagal din sa kanila, profit margins eh.
46:29.2
Naglabanasin nila yan with geopolitics at saka profit margins.
46:33.2
Halimbawa ngayon, dapat magbubuo ng industrial estates yung mga Koreans
46:37.2
dito sa Bulacan Airport.
46:40.2
nabito yung ecozone.
46:42.2
So, that's off the table, no?
46:44.2
So, ang isa ng major-major sa...
46:46.2
Ay di rin, ano pala?
46:48.2
Ramon Ang alam ko yan, diba?
46:49.2
Kay Ramon Ang yun?
46:51.2
Kausap nila mo lang yung mga Koreans, no?
46:52.2
Yun yung isa sa reason dun sa airport.
46:55.2
So, ano ngayon, no?
46:57.2
Balik ka uli sa drawing board.
46:58.2
So, dapat pumapasok na ngayon yan, no?
47:01.2
So, baka next time, baka magdalawang isip na yung mga yan, no?
47:07.2
Parang overnight na-reject?
47:09.2
Sigurado sila about their industrial estate
47:12.2
beside the new airport sa Bulacan?
47:17.2
So, yung mga ganyan ba?
47:19.2
Kailangan meron tayong kaunting professionalism.
47:23.2
And there has to be proper planning and long-term planning.
47:27.2
Just siguro to give them slightly more positive...
47:29.2
Halimbawa, narinig ko si Paul Otila.
47:31.2
Sabi niya, ay hindi naman talaga tayo
47:34.2
pinakamataas ang koreyente sa region.
47:37.2
Kaya lang tayo pinakamataas.
47:39.2
wala tayong subsidies.
47:42.2
Pero, bottom line,
47:44.2
tayo pa rin pinakamataas.
47:46.2
Ibig sabihin, wala industrial strategy.
47:48.2
Kailangan na industrial strategy, yeah.
47:51.2
Average means tax breaks.
47:54.2
Kasama dapat yun sa ating plano.
47:56.2
Yung sabi mo yung strategic planning.
47:58.2
Yung mga subsidies, exactly.
48:02.2
Hindi mo pwede i-justify na,
48:04.2
Uy! Hindi naman talaga tayo pinakamataas.
48:06.2
Kaya kailangan tayo ito mataas.
48:07.2
Dahil, wala tayong subsidy.
48:08.2
Eh, mataas pa rin talaga tayo.
48:11.2
He's implying that, actually,
48:13.2
something can be done about it,
48:14.2
short of taking out all the oligarchs.
48:16.2
Something like that.
48:17.2
Kasi medyo, Marxist Revolution na yan.
48:20.2
Mas masyadong masyadong socialista e,
48:21.2
mas madaling maachieve.
48:23.2
Let's just commanding heights,
48:24.2
i-subsidize na lang natin
48:25.2
if hindi natin ma-overtake ma-nationalist.
48:27.2
I mean, last but not least,
48:28.2
ako, I just want to end this
48:29.2
on a slightly more positive note.
48:30.2
Kasi, alam natin yung Qualcomm
48:32.2
and some of the American big tech companies
48:34.2
are considering some quite investments
48:36.2
in the Philippines.
48:37.2
the Philippines. Not billions,
48:39.1
but a few millions in the coming months
48:40.9
and years. So may konting
48:43.0
movement. Kasi may konting movement.
48:45.0
Kasi I think nag-gets talaga ng Amerika is
48:46.8
you cannot rely on the Philippines if you
48:49.3
do not invest in the Philippines
48:50.6
foundations. And I think that's why
48:52.9
pumapasok din ng Japan. Sa Kishida,
48:54.9
pumunta dito last year. And hopefully
48:56.9
Taiwan is also gonna look in that direction
48:59.1
as relationship improve. But you're
49:02.9
sometimes you have to take the horse to the water.
49:05.3
You know what I'm saying?
49:06.8
The water cannot come to the horse, you take
49:08.9
the horse to the water. Medyo minsan
49:10.8
kailangan ng ano, diba? Things don't
49:12.8
just work like that magically.
49:15.0
last month, may delegation
49:19.0
ng trade unions na pumunta
49:20.8
sa U.S. Pupunta sila
49:24.7
Na-meet nila yung head ng National Security Council.
49:27.4
Na-meet nila yung
49:28.2
Secretary of Trade and Industry.
49:30.4
Na-meet nila ang high-ranking.
49:32.5
At dahil binakapan sila
49:35.0
ng American trade unions, which are
49:36.6
very powerful. So,
49:38.3
itinikit na ng U.S. yung kanilang GSP
49:40.5
plus sa human rights.
49:42.9
Lalo na sa labor.
49:44.9
Kaya, tapos na yung
49:46.4
GSP plus with EU,
49:48.8
pero yung GSP plus
49:50.4
with U.S. wala pa.
49:52.2
Eh, pa na yun. Much delayed na yun.
49:54.3
So, makikita mo na
49:57.4
yes, gusto mag-invest ng U.S.
50:00.6
dito, pero merong mga
50:02.1
kulatila. May mga kulatila na
50:04.4
hindi hintay. At isa dyan ngayon is
50:08.2
Ironically, dahil yung
50:09.9
AFL-CIO, talagang tinulak yun
50:12.6
ng gobyerno. Vietnam, human rights.
50:18.4
So, they have to listen with the trade
50:20.7
unions in the U.S.
50:22.0
Kaya, nagulat ako.
50:23.9
Talagang center of power
50:26.8
nakaabot itong mga trade union
50:28.4
leaders natin. Kasi sila nagulat.
50:30.3
Correct. Good point. Thank you very much.
50:32.9
Because U.S. is also moving towards its own
50:34.6
industrial policy. So, parang tayo na lang
50:36.6
neoliberal dito na humahasa sa mga
50:38.4
oligarchs na ayusin yung bansa natin.
50:40.2
No, panghuli. Panghuli. Alimbawa, sinabi
50:42.3
ni Tessie Gosson-C,
50:44.2
na hindi tayo pwede mag-delink
50:47.7
lahat ng ating mga
50:56.6
Lalo na shoe mart.
50:58.5
So, bakit tayo mag-delink?
51:01.0
Na sinuportahan din ng ibang mga
51:03.7
Kasi yung statement na yan.
51:08.3
meron kang marami ngayon
51:11.0
na not only Walmart
51:12.3
ang nagdadiversify na
51:15.9
Going to India, Vietnam,
51:21.3
Indonesia, insa na Philippines
51:23.6
Dapat may sumabot sa Tessie Gosson-C
51:28.4
At least hindi ganun kadependent.
51:31.1
Na divisoria type, shoe mart
51:36.6
Imports oriented economy.
51:39.1
I mean, she should rather talk about
51:40.6
us producing our own.
51:41.7
But, alam mo naman,
51:42.9
wala naman may interes yung ibang oligarch
51:44.6
siya sa industrial strategy
51:46.6
and that's why the state should come in.
51:48.9
Don't worry, Ronald.
51:49.7
Pag nagkaroon ng revolutionary government,
51:51.2
ayusin natin yan.
51:53.0
Anyway, thank you very much.
51:54.2
Thank you very much, Sir Ronald.
51:57.0
Bago tayo mag-ulag, ayusin mo na natin yan.
51:59.1
Thank you very much for that.
51:60.0
Now, next episode,
52:00.8
pag-usapan naman natin
52:02.5
yung magandang bagay
52:04.4
which is in favor topic natin.
52:06.6
Bakit naman gagawin ang opposition dito?
52:08.6
Ito na naman, baka mabox out na naman dyan.
52:10.6
Thank you very much, Sir.
52:15.6
Let's talk about opposition quickly.
52:17.6
Okay, ito, ito, ito, ito.
52:18.6
Baka na naman, ma-accused na naman tayo.
52:20.6
Ito na naman si Aydarian, si Ronald.
52:22.6
Alam mo Ronald, may sinulat ako sa Journal of Democracy
52:24.6
ito sa Johns Hopkins News.
52:26.6
Naku, kinu-quote na tayo right and left.
52:28.6
In-accused na naman tayo na si Aydarian
52:30.6
ay nagpapabango sa fellow Ilocano niya dyan.
52:34.6
The Sun, all stars.
52:36.5
Kinu-quote na tayo.
52:37.5
Tapos kinu-quote na tayo.
52:38.5
Ayan, ayan talaga na yan.
52:39.5
Zip-zip talaga na yan.
52:41.5
Alam mo, hindi na zip-zip yan
52:43.5
kasi high level na yan.
52:44.5
Alam mo, zip-zip yung mga patikim.
52:46.5
Ito, next level na ito.
52:48.5
Parang Ronald Llamas level na ito.
52:53.5
Political advisor level na ito.
52:56.5
No, but bago ako mabash dyan.
52:58.5
Kaya, pag-uusapan naman natin.
53:00.5
Ano naman dapat gagawin ng opposition
53:02.5
na the sun is rising also?
53:06.5
Like, what's going on here?
53:08.5
Don't you think that BBM temporarily
53:11.5
reconsidering the PI or showing?
53:14.5
I mean, yung the whole Migzobiri drama
53:16.5
and all of that shows that maybe BBM
53:18.5
is more susceptible to, you know,
53:21.5
being nudged in the proper direction
53:24.5
and maybe there's more space and room
53:26.5
for opposition to be active.
53:27.5
I mean, wala akong narinig from, you know,
53:30.5
in terms of, may statement ba sila Lenny
53:32.5
and Kiko and all of that about Chalice?
53:35.5
Like, nasan ba sila?
53:37.5
What's going on, Ronald?
53:39.5
Well, yung Juan Zambaya, naglabas na ng statement
53:43.5
that they are opposed dito sa PNP's initiative.
53:48.5
Although, sinabi nila na pinag-aaralan nila
53:50.5
itong proposal ng Senate na economic provisions,
53:58.5
charter change para sa economic provisions.
54:00.5
Kumaka hindi sila nag-automatically nag-opposed doon.
54:03.5
Nag-opposed sila.
54:04.5
Nag-opposed sila sa people's initiative.
54:06.5
So nagbigay sila ng konti ng kwang, no?
54:08.5
Pero, three days ago, nagkaroon ng assembly, no?
54:13.5
Yung mga opposition icons, no?
54:17.5
Diyan sa LaSalle Green Hills,
54:19.5
sa kanilang auditorium, no?
54:22.5
First time na lumantad ulit si Lenny
54:24.5
dito sa, at least, an approximation of the pink wave.
54:28.5
No, very festive, very high spirits, no?
54:31.5
Nandun si Bah Makino, Risa Juan Tepero,
54:33.5
Shell Jokno, Kiko Pangilinan, etc.
54:40.5
Some movement, yeah.
54:41.5
Ang binalatan nila is disinformation.
54:43.5
Yun yung main peg, no?
54:48.5
Hindi talaga mag-upgrade to iPhone 1 pa rin.
54:51.5
Hindi nga nag-work yung disinformation sa Taiwan, eh.
54:55.5
Ang daming ginawa ng China.
54:56.5
Natalo pa rin yung mga kandidato.
54:58.5
Mukhang may mga kumikita dyan sa theory na yan.
55:02.5
So, may disinformation experts, PhD in disinformation.
55:08.5
Dapat kinonsulta kayo, no? Para dyan, no?
55:12.5
Pero yan, yan yung...
55:16.5
Pero tingin ko, ito ay initial na revival
55:20.5
nung pink yellow wave.
55:22.5
Tingin ko, ito ay papunta na nga sa midterms.
55:25.5
Well, nothing is final,
55:27.5
pero ang sinasabi ko lang, meron dynamic.
55:32.5
Puno yung auditorium.
55:34.5
At lahat ng mga who's who ng opposition were there, no?
55:38.5
Si Laila lang yung wala dahil meron yung akatasyang out of town, no?
55:43.5
Pero everybody who is...
55:44.5
Anybody is there.
55:47.5
Para akong Richard Hidalgo yan, eh.
55:49.5
Mix yung reaction sa akin, eh.
55:50.5
Kaya walang nag-iimbita sa akin, eh.
55:53.5
Pero na-iimbita tayo ng mga mag-aaway na panig.
55:56.5
Ako nga, na-invita...
55:58.5
Invited na ako sa Manila Times event.
56:04.5
Hurt pa rin tayo.
56:05.5
Makabaya ang black.
56:06.5
Malbuti ba yung makabaya ang black na ayinbita, no?
56:10.5
Wala akong peta-citizen doon dahil...
56:12.5
Hindi, maganda nga yun.
56:14.5
Baka hindi tayo kasa sa picture.
56:16.5
Ando na sila lahat.
56:19.5
Baka maraming magre-react siya.
56:26.5
The ball gets rolling in terms of preparation for 2025.
56:30.5
I mean, are you seeing anything hopeful?
56:33.5
Or some embers of hope?
56:35.5
Or, I don't know, green shoots?
56:36.5
What are we looking at?
56:38.5
Well, dahil nagbubuhayan uli itong pink-yellow wave, no?
56:44.5
Pagkama't wala pang desisyon sa isang slate, no?
56:49.5
At dahil nakakamon sila nitong bagong oposisyon ng mga Duterte, no?
56:59.5
Ang nakikita ko dito, going into the midterms, parang yung nangyayari noong 2022.
57:07.5
May mga senador na dadalhin ng lahat.
57:10.5
I think for now, yung nag-unfold ay tatlong major slate.
57:17.5
Administration, Duterte oposisyon, at saka itong dating oposisyon.
57:24.5
May mga candidates from both camps na ige-guess.
57:30.5
Katulad nung nangyayari noong 2022.
57:32.5
A la carte. A la carte style, yeah.
57:34.5
Which may give some of the oposisyon candidates a fighting chance.
57:39.5
Rather than na nakahiwalay lang sila.
57:43.5
Baka, Kiko, Grilon, Bamaquino, Chelo Diokno.
57:47.5
Yan yung medyo possible frontliners noong oposisyon slate.
57:53.5
Pero wala naman kasi makakakompleto eh.
57:58.5
Kahit in-announce ni Presidential Sang Sandro na dapat yung Partido Federal ay magbuo ng complete slate.
58:06.5
Medyo wishful thinking yan.
58:08.5
Dahil wala namang makakabugo at saka medyo masikip.
58:12.5
So, kukuha sila doon sa mananalo.
58:15.5
Doon sa mga re-erectionists at yung mga babalik.
58:19.5
Correct. Correct.
58:20.5
At yung mga hindi kasama dito sa re-erectionists at saka sa mga babalik.
58:25.5
Pero halos siguradong mananalo.
58:27.5
Katulad ni Erwin Tulfo.
58:30.5
So, diyan magkakaroon ng kwad.
58:33.5
Because, of course, yung mga political parties, yung mga slates, gusto rin nila ng winners.
58:38.5
Diba? Gusto rin nila ng winners.
58:41.5
Investment din yan eh.
58:43.5
Ayaw din mangyari ng oposisyon yung nangyari noong 2019.
58:52.5
Kaya, Kiko, they will be more circumspect.
58:55.5
And more pragmatic.
58:57.5
And perhaps more focused.
58:59.5
More focused para manalo.
59:02.5
So, end on this episode.
59:08.5
Parang almost textbook style.
59:12.5
What are the things na sa tingin mo the oposisyon learned over the past year or so?
59:17.5
Kasi at least they had the whole 2023 to think this through.
59:20.5
Kasi the second 6 months, the second half of 2022...
59:23.5
Puro mga denial mo.
59:25.5
Maraming bitterness.
59:26.5
Yung iba nag-travel vlogger.
59:29.5
Others naman did something good.
59:31.5
Like Lenny setting up Angad Buhay.
59:33.5
Speeches here and there.
59:35.5
But 2023, I think was really a time to learn some lessons.
59:40.5
What are the things sa tingin mo na natuto ng oposisyon?
59:42.5
What are the things na kailangan pang masahin?
59:45.5
Kailangan pang kailangan ng konting upgrade?
59:47.5
So, what is the good and what is the bad and ugly?
59:50.5
Una, prepare early.
59:52.5
Nung last election, nag-decision si Lenny practically during the filing.
60:00.5
Ikalawa, focus yung message.
60:05.5
Ang hirap naman dami mong messaging.
60:07.5
Dahil mong messaging.
60:09.5
Dahil ano na kung Senate yan.
60:12.5
Mono-issue ang Senate.
60:16.5
Hindi naman ito presidential election.
60:20.5
Iba yung messaging na kailangan.
60:22.5
Pero isang crucial ay yung hindi nagawa after nung election.
60:27.5
Buhayin yung pink wave.
60:29.5
Yung voluntarism.
60:33.5
Excitement, energy.
60:35.5
Hindi ko alam kung ano yung post ng one and a half years na hindi yan napaka-prime.
60:42.5
Pero baka kaya pa yung ipamprime.
60:44.5
At least a significant part yan.
60:46.5
Para makapagpanalo ng mga ilang senador.
60:49.5
So, hindi ko yan yung mga tatlo na key.
60:51.5
Tatlo na key lessons.
60:58.5
Thank you very much, Securly Llamas, for that very constructive episode.
61:02.5
We've been saying this for quite some time.
61:04.5
But I think ako slightly more cautiously optimistic now.
61:07.5
I think slowly and slowly nasa acceptance in terms of shortcomings.
61:11.5
And hopefully hindi lang punong disinformation lang pag-usapan.
61:14.5
Life is more than just disinformation.
61:16.5
It's important but for me it's probably just 30% of the explanation at most.
61:19.5
Hindi lang ako nag-comment.
61:24.5
Sabi ko lang na yun yung tema.
61:26.5
Medyo mag-upgrade naman tayo ng konti, hindi lang Google Trends.
61:29.5
Thank you very much for that.
61:30.5
Now, let's go to the next and last episode.
61:32.5
Siguro short lang.
61:33.5
Pero we want to talk about it a little bit.
61:38.5
Ito, bonus episode.
61:47.5
Bonus episode ito.
61:48.5
Kasi nagreklamo na yung guest natin.
61:50.5
Uy, medyo short naman na episodes natin ngayon eh.
61:53.5
Dati nga nagta-tatlong oras tayo eh.
61:56.5
Sabi ko nga, nagre-recommend ako.
61:58.5
Aside from RRL and RRM and all of that.
62:01.5
Magkakaroon din sana tayo ng RRW.
62:04.5
Double RW with si Walden naman.
62:06.5
Para naman maganda.
62:07.5
Isa sa ating mga supporters yan.
62:09.5
There's so much we can talk about.
62:10.5
Let's also arrange something like that along those lines.
62:14.5
Although lalo tayo hindi mga imbita sa mga parties eh.
62:18.5
Balikan natin yan.
62:21.5
Of course, nasa Paris.
62:22.5
You were in Paris.
62:23.5
I'm not sure you had the time to watch it eh.
62:24.5
But, you know, recently my Goomborza.
62:31.5
You're just here from Paris.
62:32.5
So, let's talk about eh cinema.
62:43.5
You know activity.
62:47.5
Artistic production.
62:52.9
We interviewed him here the other month.
62:54.4
So, Goomborza is doing very well.
62:57.1
Gos goomborza ito.
62:58.1
At mukhang natuwas
63:08.3
Si Enchong de or Cedrick doon sa isang review natin na, yun, I think was very fair.
63:09.6
Because, you know, I always say, a lot of us are hunted by the ghost of Rizal.
63:11.6
Lung intellect niya yung spirit of martyrdom.
63:12.8
But also is imperfectional.
63:13.3
Talagang maghahamak.
63:13.5
Alam natin, diba? You know, it was not perfect. I think a lot of people now are, you know, haunted by ghosts of Gumburza, especially, of course, Jose Borges, Ilocano, Mestizo. But, you know, there's someone I think we'd have to talk about more, no, Ronald? And that's Isabela de las Reyes, which I think if you're a progressive Filipino, should really pay close attention to because I think he was probably Asia's first socialist or social democratic leader, right?
63:39.4
I don't think there's anyone earlier than him. And he was an ilustrado. He was brilliant, so brilliant that according to Benedict Anderson, Rizal was pressured to produce a lot of work, some not very scholarly, on pre-Spanish Philippines, no?
63:54.7
And because he was intellectually challenged by someone like Isabela de las Reyes, considered as one of the first anthropologists in the Philippines. For some reason, we don't hear about him much, but I think for people from progressive background, you would know more about him.
64:08.0
With Leloy Claudio, we discussed about more Isabela de las Reyes. We never talked about the past. Are you like more the Bonifacio type of guy or you're more the Isabela de las Reyes kind of guy or you're like what?
64:18.9
What is your relationship with the Philippines past? Because I think for a lot of us, yung mga intellectual, Rizal comes natural, diba? Kasi, you know, you have a sense that you're continuing a certain tradition, right? You're trying to live up.
64:35.5
Ikaw, as a progressive, someone who used to be super activist and then over time, naging, you know, political advisor and then now, naging vlogger, like, where do you get that inspiration among our founding mothers and fathers?
64:48.5
Well, malaking bahagi ng aking nakaraan as an activist, as a revolutionary, ay galing sa ating mga bayani, no? A large part of my inspiration ay sa kanila nang galing.
65:02.3
Malo, sila yung nabasa ko eh. Sila yung nakilala ko.
65:05.5
Even before Gramsci, even before mga foreign ideologues.
65:16.1
Kaya nga, alimawa, yung mga organization ko sa college at saka after college, ay ginagawa na kami yung partilya, yung patlipunan, no?
65:28.2
Parang to stimulate not only loyalty to the organization and to the movement,
65:33.3
kung hindi para as a link with the parliament.
65:35.5
Mas dahil marami sa atin, nakalimutan na yan eh.
65:38.6
Alimawa, napakagaling ni Emilio Jacinto, no?
65:46.2
Administrator ng patlipunan, gumawa ng partilya, ideolog, no?
65:51.5
Namatay ng maaga.
65:53.3
Maganda sana siyang simbolo para sa ating kabataan, no?
65:55.9
Yan yung mga kwal, no?
65:58.5
Si Isabela dos Reyes, yan yung dalawa ng mga labor groups natin.
66:02.9
Pero humina kasi yung labor movement eh.
66:05.5
Baka makatunong yung memory, yung lessons, no?
66:09.6
Yung experience at sacrifice ni Isabela dos Reyes
66:12.9
para makapakalakasin yung ating labor movement, no?
66:16.3
Dahil isa yan sa mga father ng ating labor movement, no?
66:19.9
Kaya tama ka, Richard, kailangan natin ng bagong movement
66:27.6
para balikan yung ating kasataysayan.
66:30.4
At nakatulong itong Pilipula ng Bumbursa, no?
66:35.5
At itong nangyaring Christmas Convoy, no?
66:39.1
Dahil nakakaroon ng mga dynamics ngayon,
66:44.9
nakakaroon ng movement na papunta sa a sense of nationhood.
66:52.3
Na damaged, hindi lamang ng globalization,
66:56.3
na damaged ng uri ng politika na meron tayo for decades, for generations.
67:02.2
Komprador oligarchs, yan.
67:05.5
Ang warlordism, no?
67:07.9
Ang ating traditional politics.
67:13.1
Parang naging ritual na lang yung ating kasataysayan without substance.
67:18.4
Ngayon ay, yes, kailangan ng rituals, katulad ng kartilya,
67:22.3
pero lagyan ng substance at hindi kit sa ating political struggle.
67:26.7
Hindi lamang yung grand political struggle, kundi yung day-to-day.
67:31.6
Kailangan maging iconic yung mga tipo ni Emilio Jacinto.
67:37.4
Alam mo ba, April 30, magkakaroon na naman tayo ng National Heroes Day, no?
67:43.6
Sana yan ay magandang opportunity para yung pinag-uusapan natin ay masimulan uling mabuhay.
67:55.3
Ronald, I mean, I'm glad that we're having this conversation kasi, you know, parang minsan,
68:00.6
we just assume na both of us are so invested in the Philippines, invested in discussion of Philippine politics,
68:05.5
I mean, aminin natin, it's not the happiest thing to do, right?
68:09.2
I mean, as a vlogger, I was thinking, there's so many other things I can do.
68:12.1
Food vlogging, travel vlogging, I don't know, we can talk about Paris.
68:15.5
There's so much more, di ba?
68:17.4
Fashion, I don't know, yung mga murang watch na maganda, you know, like, there's so much to talk about.
68:22.4
Ukay, exactly, mga ganun.
68:23.8
And then I was thinking...
68:25.5
But why do we like him?
68:26.7
May nang tayo sa DVD, ha?
68:30.4
No, no, but before going there, I mean, but for some reason, binabalikan natin itong politika na ito.
68:35.4
No matter how tragic, no matter how difficult it is, you know, because if you look at it,
68:40.6
it was really the martyrdom of people like the Gumburzas that birthed our nation.
68:45.1
So, it's a tragic root, but it's also where the beauty of our nation comes from, right?
68:49.6
I mean, there's just so much poetry to their martyrdom.
68:53.6
There's so much poetry in their work, right?
68:54.8
I noticed it in the last episode natin, no?
68:56.7
Subukan mong balikan yung cartilya ng Katipunan, no?
69:00.2
Dalawang version yan, eh.
69:01.3
Yung Andres Bonifacio at yung Emilio Jacinto.
69:05.4
Mayroon si Bonifacio doon kay Emilio Jacinto.
69:09.1
Imagine, that happened more than 120 years ago.
69:13.7
Napaka-modern yung cartilya.
69:18.3
It speaks to us, yeah.
69:20.2
Hindi kaya po, ha?
69:20.9
Hindi ko magsasabay.
69:22.9
Kung meron kang puso, no?
69:24.5
Makaka-relate ka, eh.
69:27.8
Sana maka-relate si ex-human rights Harley Rock, eh.
69:30.7
Pagpinasan niya, no?
69:39.0
For the purpose of our, um...
69:41.1
For the purpose...
69:41.6
Mamaya na tayo magpag-usapan ng mga makapili.
69:43.6
No, but for the purpose of our discussion,
69:45.8
can you tell us, tell people a little bit about Emilio Jacinto more?
69:50.3
Contemporary ni Bonifacio yan.
69:51.4
At saka itong sinasabing cartilyo
69:53.7
ng Katipunan, no?
69:55.6
Can you tell us a little bit about it and how you were inspired?
69:57.8
Kasi ikaw, you come from University Belt, eh.
69:59.9
So medyo iba yung, ano mo,
70:01.5
yung activism mo doon sa amin na galing sa Katipunan.
70:06.2
But iba yung medyo approach na...
70:07.6
Very Bonifacio kasi ang UP, eh.
70:09.4
UP is very Bonifacio.
70:10.8
Almost anti-Rizal.
70:11.8
And then Ateneo is super Rizal.
70:13.8
Kayo, medyo iba, eh.
70:15.3
So can you tell me a little bit about this
70:16.8
for those yung mga hindi familiar masyado?
70:18.6
Partner yan yung Bonifacio, eh.
70:20.3
Si Emilio Jacinto.
70:21.1
Yan yung ideolog.
70:22.7
Yan yung gumawa ng cartilya, no?
70:24.8
Alam natin, ang gumawa ng cartilya
70:27.4
Si Emilio Jacinto.
70:28.6
Correct, correct.
70:29.2
Kasi yung gumawa niya.
70:30.0
Tapos very modern, kung babasahin mo.
70:32.5
Tapos, pwantin siya.
70:40.1
Siya yung administrator ng patipunan.
70:47.8
Namatay siya at 21, 22.
70:52.3
very tragic na napakalaki
70:54.0
yung kanyang potential.
70:56.3
Napakalaki yung kanyang...
70:58.7
isang Richard Hedarian.
71:03.4
Kung ano-ano yung mga pinasok
71:05.4
Ako, matanda na ako, eh.
71:06.9
Age na ako na Jose Borges Rizal na, eh.
71:12.4
Ang walang Emilio Jacinto, lover boy, no?
71:15.2
Ang mga set na wala siya.
71:16.9
Para may iba akong kilala din na ganyan.
71:18.5
Puro naman lover boy yung mga yan, eh.
71:21.2
At saka nagsusulat kung saan sa mga foreign journalists, no?
71:24.4
At saka newspapers, no?
71:25.9
Eto, pero ang galing niyan, no?
71:28.7
Kaya gusto ko siyang maging halimbawa para sa ating kabatahan.
71:31.7
Kaya nung college kami, nakaka-identify...
71:33.4
21 years old, amazing, yeah.
71:34.6
At yung cartilya,
71:35.4
ginamit na aming part ng aming organisasyon,
71:38.0
ng aming ritual, no?
71:39.8
Dahil ay hindi lang ma-stimulate at ma-sharpen ang iyong ideological formation
71:50.6
kung hindi yung commitment mo sa struggle, no?
71:54.3
Dahil yun yung role ng rituals.
71:57.0
Na may substance, no?
71:58.8
Ah, panya, may kandila, merong bowl of water, no?
72:05.4
So, ah, it's a ritual.
72:08.8
Pero iisahisahin mo yung laman ng cartilya, no?
72:12.7
Yung grupo na papaligid dyan sa ritual na yan,
72:16.4
babanggitin yung bawat isa doon sa cartilya.
72:19.4
At very modern yung panayan.
72:21.6
Can you give us a flavor of this?
72:23.6
I mean, it's like reciting Shakespeare.
72:24.8
We're talking about, yeah.
72:25.9
Yeah, itong primer, itong cartilya ng katipunan.
72:29.1
Can you give us some flavor of this?
72:31.5
Ah, well, yung mga...
72:33.7
Yung mga cliche na sinasabing ngayon na
72:36.4
na dapat iwanan natin yung ating mundo, no?
72:42.2
A better place than yung inabutan natin.
72:45.1
Yan, understand doon, eh.
72:46.7
Yung role ng women, although sasabihin yung iba,
72:49.1
hindi siya gano'ng ka-feminist.
72:50.7
Pero for that time,
72:52.7
At abante yan, no?
72:54.5
Tapos yung family, no?
72:56.5
Yung family at saka yung nation na magkaugnay, no?
73:00.1
Hindi magkahiwalay, no?
73:02.3
Ah, well, yung ating...
73:03.7
Yung mga warlords, pinagsama rin yan,
73:06.0
pero in a different tone,
73:07.9
in a different agenda.
73:09.0
Pero dyan, sinasabing nila,
73:10.5
yung struggle for the nation,
73:12.7
ay kaugnay ng struggle for the family, no?
73:17.5
Tapos yung mga prinsipyo,
73:19.4
hindi po yating babaguhin natin yung lipunan,
73:21.7
pero tayo hindi nagbabagot sa loob natin.
73:24.3
Yan, bahagihan ng cartilya, no?
73:26.7
Kaya, kung babasahan,
73:28.4
about 120 years ago, pinag-uusapan ito, no?
73:32.6
I mean, there were,
73:33.7
threshold of modernity, right?
73:34.8
This is late 19th century, di ba?
73:36.5
And very globalized sa Manila
73:38.2
at this point in time.
73:39.8
Sabihin mo, after ng ating session ngayon.
73:42.7
Thank you, Ronald.
73:47.1
Kailangan pag-usapan ng mas mahaba.
73:48.8
Maganda to, maganda to, maganda to.
73:50.2
Na actually, siguro,
73:51.1
with Lelo, yan sang historiador natin,
73:53.0
Let's have more...
73:54.3
I really enjoy this, Ronald.
73:56.1
You know, I'll tell you why, Ronald.
73:57.3
I mean, it's not only
73:58.1
being big geeky about history
74:01.0
I mean, I understand why Rizal
74:02.5
is not officially our the hero
74:04.2
because there are ang daming mga heroes
74:06.5
they're unsung heroes.
74:07.6
Like, literal heroes,
74:08.8
medyo nakalimutan natin
74:09.8
kasi namatay ng...
74:11.0
I mean, another person
74:12.0
na I think we also have to mention
74:13.2
is Edelberto Evangelista
74:15.4
who was really the military genius
74:17.9
that Aguinaldo wanted to actually take over.
74:21.4
Kasi, ba't isa Aguinaldo,
74:23.1
napaka-genius to mga to sa military.
74:25.4
Talong-talong mga Espanyol sa kanya.
74:27.1
These are among the first...
74:28.4
I just got an old bust of Malbacar.
74:34.2
Before Christmas.
74:34.9
Against America na naman ito.
74:36.3
Yung mayari ng Boxel.
74:37.2
Yung mayari ng Boxel.
74:39.2
Nabili ko sa kanya.
74:41.1
Nanggaling yata sa isang
74:42.2
lumang school sa Batangas yan.
74:44.7
Malbacar hanggang sa panahon
74:45.9
ng Amarcano lumalaban.
74:48.5
O, yan, nakakalimutan na yan.
74:50.4
Sino sa ating Generation Z?
74:53.1
Sino sa ating Millennials
74:57.6
yung mga bayani na yan?
74:59.5
O, kasi wala naman tayong
75:00.5
giyera daw sa Amerika
75:01.4
at Night and Shining
75:03.2
Anong American-Philippine War?
75:07.4
But, yun yung sinasabi ko parate.
75:09.3
Na, there's so many.
75:10.8
I mean, of course,
75:11.9
We can talk about
75:13.0
That's a more tragic issue
75:14.1
na we can talk about later on.
75:15.3
Ang galing, sa mga susunod
75:17.0
pwede ba na tayo ng
75:18.0
kaunting 3-5 minutes
75:20.8
isa dito sa mga ito?
75:23.7
Bonus episode na lang.
75:26.5
Ito, R&R Reflections on History.
75:29.2
Ano yung mga kartilya...
75:31.5
Kartilya natin dalawa.
75:33.1
Kartilya sa kasaysayan
75:36.9
Inspirasyon niya.
75:37.3
Alam mo, ganda yan.
75:38.8
Hindi naman ako katulad
75:40.0
ni Richard at ni Walden
75:42.3
classics ni Lenin
75:48.5
Pwede ba lang ako sa Pueblo eh.
75:50.1
Nagsimula ako sa...
75:51.6
nag-off big lang yung light.
75:53.6
Pwede ba lang ako
75:55.1
Later pa na na-discovery
76:02.7
Later pa na yung na-discovery.
76:04.3
nag-off tuloy yung light ko.
76:05.6
itong third rectification movement.
76:08.3
Yung pinag-a-delay ko sa'yo.
76:10.8
May peace talks ka
76:11.7
pero at the same time
76:12.6
may third rectification movement.
76:14.4
Bukang magkakaroon na naman
76:15.5
ang bagong purging.
76:17.1
The communist party.
76:20.0
No, I wanna end on this point
76:22.0
Ronald, thank you.
76:23.4
I think I realized
76:24.0
we have to do more of this.
76:25.6
You know, for me,
76:26.5
ganito yan, Ronald.
76:27.3
Whenever I feel na
76:28.2
nawala ako ng pag-asa,
76:31.1
na-frustrate ako.
76:31.9
And then I remember,
76:33.0
anong dinaanan ng ating mga...
76:34.6
yung mga nauna sa atin,
76:36.8
yung mga founding fathers.
76:39.2
wag na tayo maging whiny.
76:42.4
sobrang grabe yung
76:43.8
what they had to face.
76:45.8
They were not even considered
76:46.7
as full human beings.
76:48.6
Look at the case of Gomborza.
76:51.2
in the case of Gomborza,
76:52.5
they were half Espanol
76:53.5
and still they were not seen
76:54.7
as full human beings.
76:57.3
yung sinabi ni Dela Torre
77:02.7
Guarda Civil yung father niya.
77:04.4
imagine mo what they had to deal with
77:13.5
maya naman tayo sa balat natin.
77:15.1
Ang dami natin mga drama.
77:16.7
Ayoko na sa Pilipinas.
77:18.6
Mga abroad na ako.
77:19.9
Mayroon tayo ng passive-aggressive.
77:20.9
Galit na galit na tayo.
77:23.5
Yun nga yung point ko.
77:24.3
Na-troll lang ng konti.
77:25.7
Ang daming drama.
77:26.9
hindi ka lang ma-troll.
77:28.5
ma-interrogate ka,
77:33.0
just imagine what they had to deal with.
77:35.4
maya naman tayo sa balat natin.
77:36.6
Ang dami natin mga gulo.
77:37.7
Ang layo na rating natin
77:39.0
dahil sa sakripisyon nila.
77:40.5
nation-building is a continuous project.
77:43.3
is getting in touch with the past.
77:44.8
thank you very much,
77:45.9
Sec. Ronald D. Amas,
77:46.9
for suggesting to us.
77:48.0
Not only talking about
77:49.5
Let's have an unsung heroes series.
77:52.6
balikan natin ibang heroes
77:53.8
but with a different perspective.
77:55.8
just to give you a flavor,
77:56.8
pinag-usapan natin
77:57.5
dalawa sa ating favorites.
78:00.4
si Emilio Hacinto,
78:01.4
at saka, of course,
78:03.1
Isabelo de los Reyes.
78:05.0
this is fantastic.
78:06.3
Let's do more of this,
78:07.7
Thank you so much,
78:08.9
Sec. Ronald D. Amas.
78:10.9
for this fantastic discussion.
78:12.6
Looking forward to catching up
78:17.9
Try natin sa weekend.
78:19.3
Or early next week
78:20.0
with Leloy naman.
78:21.6
kasi historiador yan.
78:23.1
So, magandang kausap yan
78:23.9
sa mga ganitong issue rin.
78:33.0
Thank you very much, guys.
78:33.9
Pasensya na kung may mga...
78:35.6
Kasi ang dami mga platforms natin.
78:37.5
magkaroon ng technical issues.
78:39.4
we're trying to be active.
78:41.3
Maraming pa rin sa atin
78:42.7
Thank you very much
78:43.3
sa lahat mga natin sa TikTok.
78:45.5
Ginagawa natin book talk
78:47.2
Marami rin sa ating mga kameta
78:49.3
and ka-YouTubers ito.
78:50.6
Thank you so much.
78:51.9
And talk to you soon.
78:54.7
Tuloy-tuloy na natin ito.
78:59.6
Thank you very much.
